Too quick?

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Archie Swivel

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Last round I hit 10 snappers off the tee. Ten. Had to freaking re-tee hitting 3 on seven of those times resulting in a cool 101. My previous round of 81 had actually been displeasing at the time since it consisted of five 3-putts and two chili-dips. I had been in the low-to-mid 80's for about a month- mainly because of poor touch around the green and because I'm a range rat and never chip and putt.

But a 101? I think what happened was I was finally getting confident off the tee since I had been absolutely hammering my drives for a month around the 300 mark. My bad shots had been in the rough, not the hazard or OB. The guys who I was playing with said repeatedly I looked "too quick." So my question is what is the main cause of that sloppy look of being "too quick". Is it simply that your arms are too fast in relation to your body? Or would clubhead throwaway be the culprit?

And lets get this straight: I can hit a 300+ drive. I am proud of that because it is the only thing that lets me shine once in awhile. But I have to swing as hard as I can to do it. My "smooth swing" is a 235 yarder and is unacceptable. That's the one you have seen me post a couple of times. I have diagnosed the problem as not having lag, but I must then conclude that I actually can get alot of power with clubhead throwaway to explain my long drives of the previous month.

My last visit to the range I concentrated on still swinging hard but making my hands outrace the clubhead until impact. I hit the ball hard this way, and my misses were straight pulls but with no hook. Of course, I'm happy not to be hitting the dying quail, but something is just not right. It feels like I'm popping a whip-- going back real slow and trying to leave the clubhead behind as I bring my hands down.

Somebody please help me get on track.

Arch
 
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Triad

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Last round I hit 10 snappers off the tee. Ten. Had to freaking re-tee hitting 3 on seven of those times resulting in a cool 101. My previous round of 81 had actually been displeasing at the time since it consisted of five 3-putts and two chili-dips. I had been in the low-to-mid 80's for about a month- mainly because of poor touch around the green and because I'm a range rat and never chip and putt.

But a 101? I think what happened was I was finally getting confident off the tee since I had been absolutely hammering my drives for a month around the 300 mark. My bad shots had been in the rough, not the hazard or OB. The guys who I was playing with said repeatedly I looked "too quick." So my question is what is the main cause of that sloppy look of being "too quick". Is it simply that your arms are too fast in relation to your body? Or would clubhead throwaway be the culprit?

And lets get this straight: I can hit a 300+ drive. I am proud of that because it is the only thing that lets me shine once in awhile. But I have to swing as hard as I can to do it. My "smooth swing" is a 235 yarder and is unacceptable. That's the one you have seen me post a couple of times. I have diagnosed the problem as not having lag, but I must then conclude that I actually can get alot of power with clubhead throwaway to explain my long drives of the previous month.

My last visit to the range I concentrated on still swinging hard but making my hands outrace the clubhead until impact. I hit the ball hard this way, and my misses were straight pulls but with no hook. Of course, I'm happy not to be hitting the dying quail, but something is just not right. It feels like I'm popping a whip-- going back real slow and trying to leave the clubhead behind as I bring my hands down.

Somebody please help me get on track.

Arch
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That's a real interesting and complex question Archie. If you are hitting 300 yard drives and shooting in the low 80's on a regular basis, then you clearly have a serviceable game. Not a broken one.

I have a bud who, on occasion, has a bad case of snap-itis. Always happens when he is reaching for 'a little extra'. In his case he gets over-aggressive with his right hand/arm and tries to hit and swing at the same time. (A less than accomplished 4 barrel stroke ;))

In your case, not having seen your swing, it could be any number of things, from throwaway, to just being out of synch on that particular day. I wouldn't let one bad round destroy your confidence.

(Although, I have done it myself. After you lose your 10th brand new Pro-V in the woods you get a bit pissed. Momentum just takes over and your spirit is broken that day, no redemption until the chip in on 18.
You have to put that round behind you):)

Your stats seem to check out with most estimates I have seen. The average distance to clubhead speed ratio seens to be about 2.5 to 1. So, your 300 yard drive implies a clubhead speed of around 120mph. Your 'smooth' swing implies about 94mph, or 78% of your 'all out' speed. Many players advocate a swing at 80-85% of max speed. Perhaps your 'easy' swing is a touch too slow.

You could work on a step-up practice session where you gradualy increase your speed to close in on the 85-90% range but my guess is that, since you have been suceesfull at the 120mph rate, you were probably just having a really off day.

Some people had reported sucess with the Tour Tempo CD. It has allowed them to gradually improve their tempo and increase their comfort at higher swingspeeds.

I say, just go out again this weekend and knock the paint off the ball .

STL,
Triad
 
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Archie Swivel

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Oh, I've learned it. Just can't do it! I hit a milk crate full of balls today at the range focusing on maitaining a bent right wrist and flat left wrist. I just filmed my swing (which I shall not post) and I observed a nice right hip sway and a smooth reversing out of the spine at the top; but I did have a bent right wrist and flat left wrist through most of the swing, but my shutter speed on my Sondy DVD camcorder is too freaking slow to catch impact. I did observe that my club was very 'stressed' at parallel at the top- is that a good thing? Also, I observed that my shaft angle was steeper at impact than at address (butt pointing at belt buckle at address and at belly button at impact). Bad? Am I providing any more clues?

Arch, in distress
 
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DDL

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300 yd Drive? Arch, I thought you were a beginner or newbie. If you are, screw huricane Ivan, I am coming to Ky or LA or wherever the heck Brian is now.
 
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Archie Swivel

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DDL,too much credit to me man. My brother can barely break a 100, but hits 245 yd 3-irons. Haven't you ever played in a scramble with 'that guy' that could catch a monster drive 2 or 3 times in a round on the screws and your team has sandwedge into a par 4, but that's all he contributed. Couldn't break 95 on his best day. That was me until two years ago. Used to hit 9-iron 160 yds with hook spin. No short game (chili dip and 3-putt for triple bogie) and a couple monster drives per round. I was the same way in tennis- blistering flat serve and spanked my forehand, but couldn't volley worth sh*t. I guess I have bad hands. My game is very schizophrenic- who shoots 81 and 101 in the same week? And the 81 was with wedge into par 4's. I am fine within a week of a visit to Brian, but I keep losing it. I am actually pretty frustrated because I've worked hard all summer beating balls and I'm a decent athlete and I still suck. Sorry for whining.............
 
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bantamben1

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archie make sure your stance stays consistent use a pre shot routine like the one doyle prescribes which is very similar to hogans i too had the same problem of hitting snaphooks even though i prefer a fade what i would do is start accidently opening my stance ever so slightly and then make an abreviated shoulder turn partly cause of the open stance and come over the top on the way down so especially with a driver close your stance ever so slightly and even flare your rear foot a couple of degrees like hogan did when he hit driver. then from there its pretty easy trace that straight plane line back and look at the inside aft quadrant of the ball on the way down keep those flying wedges intact. also i to hit the ball about 300 on a good drive about 118 to 120 clubhead speed but you must realy be slowing down to hit a 235 yard drive for me thats a smoooth 2 iron so you may be taking it to smooth
 
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mb6606

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Re-Read Brian's article "Never Slice Again". The part about clubhead lag to prevent the hook. Make sure you have maintain the stationary head and the right forearm on plane.
 
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EdZ

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Tour Tempo can be very useful, as Triad mentioned. It is hard to switch to 'building' speed, from trying to 'kill' it. Let balance be your main guide. Are you still able to hold your finish until the ball stops on those snap hooks? I'd guess the answer is no. Next round, don't try for distance, only holding your finish until the ball stops.
 
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MizunoJoe

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"It feels like I'm popping a whip-- going back real slow and trying to leave the clubhead behind as I bring my hands down."

Assuming that you are SWINGING back slowly, rather than lifting, the first sentence is good description of EXACTLY what you should be doing in a swinging stroke. Are you keeping the left wrist bone ahead of the left hand through impact? You may be doing a 'left wrist bend' leak hook. You want to crack the whip, but you MUST NOT let the handle of the club back up.
 
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Archie Swivel

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Well I hit the range again today and focused on my pivot which was the most horrifying thing on saw on video. My swing thought was to think of my left shoulder turning back behind the ball while my right hip pulled back helping me maintain or even increase my right thigh angle. Although the left shoulder and right hip aren't exactly lined up, I thought of them passing over each other. This created a real 'counter balance' feeling where I felt like a was falling into the aft quadrant of the ball. It was a good ball striking session for me. Now before I go and groove this, am I on the right track?
 
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MizunoJoe

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This is what the discussion is about in the 'Tush Line" thread. The hip move is a "countermove" to the upper body rotation. You are now staying on the ball on the DS, and effectively rotating around a line from your head through the right heel.
 
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wally888

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Archie.
Long before TGM was written I once asked an old pro who was very long and never hit a hook, "How?"

He replied, " I just try to hold the club against the ball as long as I can, see how long I can keep the club in contact with the ball"!

Perhaps an over simplification of a flat left wrist at impact. A thought/feeling.
 
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Archie Swivel

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An 84 today with a 4-chip from the fringe on #10. The pivot made all of the difference in the world. I was well coiled with no hip slide. Kept my angle with right leg. Lined my left shoulder up over my right hip. Slow and heavy fall into the inside aft quadrant. One snap hook.

Arch
 
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