Top Position, Flat Left Wrist, etc.

[JON B]

So I've been playing for around 5 years and got myself down to an 8 HCP flipping it all over the course before finding this site (and a few others) and purchasing CFF. I've started with some with some of the drills from the video and finally have been able to hit some solid chips and pitches without hitting the ground about 5 inches behind the ball using a forward ball position.

I was doing some mirror work (a mirror is the best peice of golf equipment I've ever purchased, just wish I had done it before a couple of weeks ago) yesterday, specifically trying to groove solid impact position and I noticed that my left wrist was cupped at the top of the backswing, which is not at all what my "feel" has been (and I've definitely read up on some of the comments on the differences between feel and reality, so this doesn't come as a surprise). I started trying to cock the wrist correctly and end up with a flat left wrist at the top, which gave the feel of being more flat, though my hands are no lower than they have been. Took that feel to the range last night and hit shots far better than I can ever remember (as far as contact). I was hitting slight pushes with everything unless I really tried to manipulate the clubface, but the trajectory was much better and I just seemed to have more of the club on the ground after the ball was hit and my divots were a lot more wide and shallow than normal. This was without even thinking about impact position, only trying to have the wrists cocked correctly at the top.

So there is my question. Is getting into a better position at the top the main ingredient in having a solid impact position?

 

[Jared Willerson]

You do not need a visually flat left wrist at the top. If you are getting back to impact properly with your current feel then I would leave it alone.

As someone similar to you a few years ago, let me caution you about over doing the flat left wrist. Please, please, please pay attention to your pivot. Make sure that action is correct and a lot of times the flip will take care of itself.

In my case I got so focused on the "flat left wrist at impact" and thought if I could just do that then the kingdom of golf would be mine....what I ended up with was a massive upper body dive at the ball. I had a flat-ass left wrist though.

 

[JON B]

In my case I got so focused on the "flat left wrist at impact" and thought if I could just do that then the kingdom of golf would be mine....what I ended up with was a massive upper body dive at the ball. I had a flat-ass left wrist though.

Great stuff and this is exactly the way I feel right now, well albeit the kingdom of golf part (don't think the kingdom is in the cards for me, but I know I can hit more solid, straight shots than I have been to this point). You just hear so much about good impact positon vis a vis the flat left wrist on all the forums, I just figured that's where I needed to start since I feel like making good, solid contact is where I am lacking, at least on anything longer than a 7 iron. Brian's pivot ariticles are great and I'll try to focus on that in my practice to see if my ballstriking improves. Thanks for the reply...

 

[fronesis]

I think the key lies in seeing the way the pivot and proper impact positions (FLW) are connected. In order to "hit it with your pivot" you need to have a FLW, and only IF you have FLW can you really hit it with your pivot. So I think it's a matter of emphasizing one or the other only to the extent that one helps more.

I'm guessing, but from Jon B's initial account, it sounds to me like getting to the top with a FLW forced him to pivot better. I DO find that having a cupped wrist at the top encourages me to flip it, while having a FLW encourages me to really turn and wallop the ball with my pivot.

 

[vjsinger]

You do not need a visually flat left wrist at the top. If you are getting back to impact properly with your current feel then I would leave it alone.

As someone similar to you a few years ago, let me caution you about over doing the flat left wrist. Please, please, please pay attention to your pivot. Make sure that action is correct and a lot of times the flip will take care of itself.

In my case I got so focused on the "flat left wrist at impact" and thought if I could just do that then the kingdom of golf would be mine....what I ended up with was a massive upper body dive at the ball. I had a flat-ass left wrist though.

Well said coach. The flat "left wrist focus" thing will surely kill you if you aren't careful. I agree with you, alot of people don't pay near enough attention to their pivot and the correct sensations of the pivot. I whole heartedly believe that the correct understanding and study of the pivot is the most important thing a golfer can do for him or herself.

 

[vjsinger]

Also, a little advice on mirror practice. I would be careful with this. I was able to hold the club wrong and after so many poses in the mirror for a few months able to make the clubface at the top "look right" even though I held the club wrong. The person that showed me my grip was wrong(Brian) even said he hadn't seen anything like that. Just thought Id share that with you so you don't get too caught up in the mirror work. Id double check the grip, Im not saying that is the problem, but Id just make sure.

 

[JON B]

I'm guessing, but from Jon B's initial account, it sounds to me like getting to the top with a FLW forced him to pivot better. I DO find that having a cupped wrist at the top encourages me to flip it, while having a FLW encourages me to really turn and wallop the ball with my pivot.

That's what I feel like just in making that initial change, but I also know that "feel" isn't necessarily "fact" and I really need to post up a video... (trying to get set up with decent camera so I can do just that).

Also, a little advice on mirror practice. I would be careful with this. I was able to hold the club wrong and after so many poses in the mirror for a few months able to make the clubface at the top "look right" even though I held the club wrong.

Noted and thanks for the mirror comment. I have always heard that watching yourself in a mirror can be deceptive and I definitely know nothing about the golf swing so I'm not going take it too far. I will say that it's helped me visually to see that I am in a bad position here and there, i.e. backswing too long with the longer clubs, hands a little too far forward at address, ball position a little too far back, etc. All of the above are likely contributing to the inconsistent contact...

The person that showed me my grip was wrong(Brian) even said he hadn't seen anything like that. Just thought Id share that with you so you don't get too caught up in the mirror work. Id double check the grip, Im not saying that is the problem, but Id just make sure.

My tendency is to have a grip that may be considered strong (3 knuckles visible) which I guess is okay, but I "pinch" the club slightly between the right thumb and pointer finger and I've gathered that's not a good attribute from various threads on the grip.

 

[magic43]

In regards to using a mirror, it is a great aid for checking static positions such as the setup at address. It is, however, not as good for checking the more dynamic positions in the golf swing. Checking the latter is better accomplished by using video.

 

[vjsinger]

That's what I feel like just in making that initial change, but I also know that "feel" isn't necessarily "fact" and I really need to post up a video... (trying to get set up with decent camera so I can do just that).



Noted and thanks for the mirror comment. I have always heard that watching yourself in a mirror can be deceptive and I definitely know nothing about the golf swing so I'm not going take it too far. I will say that it's helped me visually to see that I am in a bad position here and there, i.e. backswing too long with the longer clubs, hands a little too far forward at address, ball position a little too far back, etc. All of the above are likely contributing to the inconsistent contact...

I used to believe there was such a thing as a backswing that is too long, I have since changed my mind on this because of a discussion with the host on the subject, as Brian would say, "that is baloney". I do agree with "magic" its good to check the static positions though.

My tendency is to have a grip that may be considered strong (3 knuckles visible) which I guess is okay, but I "pinch" the club slightly between the right thumb and pointer finger and I've gathered that's not a good attribute from various threads on the grip.

For me the grip was a tricky thing and I think it has to do with my hand size and their "meatyness", if thats a word. I don't like the knuckle count test. I did something similar and that proved to be worthless. During my lesson I found it very interesting to see how Brian checked my grip and showed me how to grip it. You should have seen him, the best way to describe him looking at it and disecting it is that he studied it. He looked at it from every conceivable angle and we actually tried different positions of the hands, until we settled on the current position. My point, sometimes things aren't as they seem to the untrained eye(myself), I believe all grips are a little different, both in looks/feel and in function for each individual. I will say though, if there is one place where you can get answers to your questions, it is here, best of luck and welcome.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Also, a little advice on mirror practice. I would be careful with this. I was able to hold the club wrong and after so many poses in the mirror for a few months able to make the clubface at the top "look right" even though I held the club wrong. The person that showed me my grip was wrong(Brian) even said he hadn't seen anything like that. Just thought Id share that with you so you don't get too caught up in the mirror work. Id double check the grip, Im not saying that is the problem, but Id just make sure.

VJ, what was wrong with your grip? just curious.

 

[vjsinger]

VJ, what was wrong with your grip? just curious.

Ill PM you soon to talk, but Im crazy busy right now and can't..will talk soon my friend.