Trackman and Clubface Control

[ballaholic]

Let's say you had a student who had very good path numbers (consistently around 0-degrees give or take a degree) based on your watching them on Trackman/Flightscope.

For that same student, contact was consistently on or near the center of the face.

Player is a low single digit handicapper.

Let's also say that same student had much more inconsistent FACE ANGLE numbers... ranging from several degrees open to several closed. The miss pattern was all over the place and virtually always due to face angle issues.

Where would you start?

Would you just continue to have them rip balls on Trackman until they start to "feel" what a square face is like?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I'd try to find the root of their club face problems. How would they feel what a square face is if they can't get one?

 

[wulsy]

IMHO, Kevin is spot on. How can you fix something when you don't know what's causing it?

 

[savydan]

I'd guess that would be quite rare.

 

[mgranato]

If the face is going in both directions, do you start with grip?

 

[Dariusz J.]

Let's also say that same student had much more inconsistent FACE ANGLE numbers... ranging from several degrees open to several closed. The miss pattern was all over the place and virtually always due to face angle issues.

Looks like the student uses a heavily crossover release pattern. Problems with timing of squaring the clubface. Sometimes delivered still open clubface at the ball, sometimes already closed.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Shields]

This example student would almost never have consistent attack angle numbers as well

 

[Richard the Nerd]

This example student would almost never have consistent attack angle numbers as well

How does the golfer achieve consistent attack angle numbers? What component(s) and or combination of compenents allow this "objective" to be achieved most effectively? Or is it "cat skinning"?

 

[Frans@France]

...Player is a low single digit handicapper.....The miss pattern was all over the place and virtually always due to face angle issues.

Where would you start?

check his clubs for length. Then do a fitting

 

[TeeAce]

This example student would almost never have consistent attack angle numbers as well

It doesn't help to change tires when engine and gearbox are broken

 

[Todd Dugan]

This is a hypothetical question that rarely occurs as inconsistent Clubface numbers usually present with Path errors and/or off-center impacts. Soooo....first show me a player with a consistently optimal Path and centered impacts who is all over the place with the Clubface. If this scenario did present, I would teach how to release the wrist cock angle with more and less roll.

 

[Frans@France]

. Soooo....first show me a player with a consistently optimal Path and centered impacts who is all over the place with the Clubface. If this scenario did present, I would teach how to release the wrist cock angle with more and less roll.

What optimal path you would like to see?

 

[ballaholic]

Looks like the student uses a heavily crossover release pattern. Problems with timing of squaring the clubface. Sometimes delivered still open clubface at the ball, sometimes already closed.

Cheers

BINGO! This is exactly the issue. You can see the clubface closing coming into the ball and through impact, so it's a matter of timing. Typically it seems to be happening a little late (clubface open) but occasionally the release happens too fast and it's closed coming into the ball. The data from Trackman is indicating a pretty big variance which suggests there's way too much hand manipulation into and through impact.

The golfer does hit a fair number of square face shots but my guess is that it's good timing which can get grooved on the range with Trackman but gets tougher to bring to a round of golf. A few square faced shots can get followed up by a couple with face +6 and then a couple with face -2.

One good thing about this particular situation is that the golfer has been able to identify (through Trackman) that it's a clubface problem and not a path issue... maybe a rarity but certainly applies in this case.

One approach is to sit on Trackman and try to slowly reduce the margin of error of the clubface at impact. However, I believe there is way too much clubface manipulation throughout the swing so it would seem to make sense to go back to the Casio and look for a square face at the various checkpoints unless somebody has another suggestion or training aid.

HOWEVER - the golfer has a pretty steep angle of attack and perhaps this steepness is creating some forces that leave the face tending toward open? Ever seen it?

 

[JTillery]

BINGO! This is exactly the issue. You can see the clubface closing coming into the ball and through impact, so it's a matter of timing. Typically it seems to be happening a little late (clubface open) but occasionally the release happens too fast and it's closed coming into the ball. The data from Trackman is indicating a pretty big variance which suggests there's way too much hand manipulation into and through impact.

The golfer does hit a fair number of square face shots but my guess is that it's good timing which can get grooved on the range with Trackman but gets tougher to bring to a round of golf. A few square faced shots can get followed up by a couple with face +6 and then a couple with face -2.

One good thing about this particular situation is that the golfer has been able to identify (through Trackman) that it's a clubface problem and not a path issue... maybe a rarity but certainly applies in this case.

One approach is to sit on Trackman and try to slowly reduce the margin of error of the clubface at impact. However, I believe there is way too much clubface manipulation throughout the swing so it would seem to make sense to go back to the Casio and look for a square face at the various checkpoints unless somebody has another suggestion or training aid.

HOWEVER - the golfer has a pretty steep angle of attack and perhaps this steepness is creating some forces that leave the face tending toward open? Ever seen it?

Is ball back and grip weak?

 

[ballaholic]

Is ball back and grip weak?

Ball is actually a bit up and grip neutral-to-strong.

 

[Dariusz J.]

BINGO! This is exactly the issue. You can see the clubface closing coming into the ball and through impact, so it's a matter of timing. Typically it seems to be happening a little late (clubface open) but occasionally the release happens too fast and it's closed coming into the ball. The data from Trackman is indicating a pretty big variance which suggests there's way too much hand manipulation into and through impact.

More pivot-controlled swing (that will lower the swing plane per se) could be the key to get rid of this kind of release. But more knowledgeable people will help in detail much better.

I'd say - let the guy watch this:

Cheers