Training Aids and the Full Swing

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Brian Manzella

Administrator
I used to use many different training aids in my teaching.

But for the last several years—and when you have been teaching golf 27 years, "last several" means a decade—I basically just stopped using them altogether.

If they help another teacher teach better, good for them.

But, why don't I use them?

Because my RESULTS got better when I stopped using them.

Why?

For one, I figure because you can't use a training aid when you play, you have to "get it right in your coconut" at some point anyway.

That means the teacher, needs to do a better job of figuring a way to GET the student to be able to "do it" without training wheels faster.

After all, that's what teaching is—getting your student to do something different, and hopefully better, on their own, without you being there.

Right?

Now as far as any device that helps you keep you left wrist flat—like the tac-tic, the Hogan/Schlee Secret, the Power Glove, the bickler, etc.—I just don't want my students to learn to keep the left wrist flat using a device.

Why?

Because I get better RESULTS not doing it that way.

I tried the other way.

I tried EVERY other way.

I tried "short to long" first.

The way I teach now is better.

I tried telling people about their right forefinger pressure.

I don't anymore.

Why?

Because I get better RESULTS that way.

I tried the other way.

I just want folks to realize that when I am "Anti-Something," it is ONLY BECAUSE I tried it extensively, and found a better way.

I am very sorry of one of the things, or several of the the things, or even DOZENS of the things I used to do, or tried extensively, I don't do anymore because I got better results doing something else, and that something is something that a other teacher still uses, still believes in, sells as his method, product, or best idea.

I am sorry.

I am ALL ABOUT RESULTS.

Period.

Get it?

Whew!
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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IMO, the true measure of a teacher is the results their students get at the end of the day. I know I've 'endorsed' the Taly, but it's also with the caveat that I hate other training aids. And if a teacher started to bring out a training aid with me in a lesson, I don't think I would be overly enthused about the situation...(things like plowsticks or Trackman I really don't call training aids). But believe me, I've probably tried more training aids than any non-pro out there and I've found that I not only dislike, but detest 99% of them.

But let me also add the caveat that something like the Taly is something I wouldn't guarantee. I believe that anything in the golf swing may work for a large mass of people, but may also not work for a large mass of people. Just like a certain grip or a certain address position or type of takeaway or swing plane or equipment or a training aid, I wouldn't be willing to bet any money that something like the Taly would work on everybody. But it does help me not get the clubhead going too fast on the downswing, avoid getting quick on the startdown and allow me to feel what that's like. But for Joe Schmoe, it may not work for you...in fact, I met a golfer about a week ago who saw me using the Taly and asked me how I liked it and then told me he can't figure out how it's supposed to work and it's been collecting dust for him.

Different strokes for different folks. I do know that I would prefer any instructor to teach me instead of just handing me over a training aid. That way you can 'own it', which is arguably the most powerful thing a golfer can have.



3JACK
 
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needham

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Richie3Jack said:
But it does help me But for Joe Schmoe, it may not work for you...in fact, I met a golfer about a week ago who saw me using the Taly and asked me how I liked it and then told me he can't figure out how it's supposed to work and it's been collecting dust for him.


3JACK
Click to expand...


thats a nut shell right there........I use several myself, including the taly.I love all the ones I use. Of course, other people have NO CLUE what to do with a training aid, all becuase they do not know how to use it properly.

I really think you have to get to a certain level of play before Training aids and "drills" actually help.

I think brian is spot on with the aids of the left wrist, IMO you need to learn to keep it flat, then maybe to use an aid to make sure it is flat in practice.




and Brian, I know I made a few harsh post today. Do not think I think you are anti anything.I guess the thing with me is.........you still have to move through and have things like the right index finger pressure....BUT if you can teach WITHOUT ever telling ppl those things (which often does confuse them) GREAT!!!!!!! ME, I cant swing a club without thinking of those things. and have to understand things of the like......just my mindset of learning I suppose.


ROCK ON!:D
 
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puttmad

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Brian,

Totally agree with you re. training aids (thats a first..:D)

To me it is like trying to learn to walk using crutches...as soon as you take them away you fall over...:)

All you need is a club and a bit of dirt....
 
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golfer24

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Would you teach a beginner short to long. I know you discussed with Croker that you would lose alot of experienced golfers if you tried this with them.
 
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dannyc

New
i guess if the beginner wants to learn to hit a chip and a pitch, teach them. but if they want to learn the full swing, and you can teach them without making them hit 800 chips...they'll have more fun and be more likely to return for another lesson.
 
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needham

New
I think the only reason you cant teach "short to long " to 98% of the people ....is cause people are lazy and do not want to put in the work to build from square one.

most people just want to make good contact and enjoy a 12 pack. and thats fine.
 
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timwalsh300

New
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to compartmentalize things.

For example, I can hit 1000 balls in a row correctly at half-speed, but as soon as I go to full-speed I revert back to whatever I was doing before. What I practiced at half-speed simply becomes "my half-speed swing." "My full-speed swing" is something entirely different.

The ONLY thing that has worked for me so far is hitting real golf balls with a real full-speed swing, and breaking each swing down on video immediately afterwards. Each time I try to tweak things until it looks "right," and that way I get a feel for what "right" feels like at full-speed. Then it is just a matter of trying to repeat that feel.

Tim
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

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I sell one and I don't teach with it either!

I don't use gizmo's when I teach either. I feel I can train most everything a student needs w/out the use of props.

Like 3Jack, I'd be PO'd if an instructor wanted me to "try something on" or "use this to..."

That said, I do think there are a few good aids out there that can help students when the watchful eye of a qualified teacher is not around.

People need to know "where they are" in space and reality. Some aids help during private practice.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
I agree Martin.

I think some training aids are good for STUDENTS, and your "Tour Striker" is one of them.

John Weaver's "Pure Swing" is good for students as well.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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timwalsh300 said:
Maybe it's just me, but I tend to compartmentalize things.

For example, I can hit 1000 balls in a row correctly at half-speed, but as soon as I go to full-speed I revert back to whatever I was doing before. What I practiced at half-speed simply becomes "my half-speed swing." "My full-speed swing" is something entirely different.

The ONLY thing that has worked for me so far is hitting real golf balls with a real full-speed swing, and breaking each swing down on video immediately afterwards. Each time I try to tweak things until it looks "right," and that way I get a feel for what "right" feels like at full-speed. Then it is just a matter of trying to repeat that feel.

Tim
Click to expand...

I used to have the same problem. What worked for me was to 'feel my way around.' I actually discovered this all by accident. But I tried to 'feel' what was different between when I did it right vs. when I did it wrong.

For instance, when working on getting rid of the flip, I could do it with the chip shot swing and the half swing without much of an issue. But when I tried it with the full swing, I couldn't do it at first. Then I went back to the half swing and 'felt my way around' and started to feel that I had that pressure in the lifeline in my right hand up against my left thumb on the downswing and was basically making a 'palm heel strike' into the ball. Furthermore, as I was 'feeling my way around', I noticed that I could only execute that palm heel strike properly with a slower startdown and eventually I started to feel just how slow I had to go.

I do believe it's a tough concept to grasp because it's certainly a tough concept to truly convey to people. But very powerful if you can 'own it.'




3JACK
 
curtisj76

curtisj76

New
Richie3Jack said:
I don't like the Swingyde because I use force across the shaft. I think it *might* be helpful if you use force along the shaft. I believe a good training aid fits almost every pattern.



3JACK
Click to expand...

I've also heard you can flip it around and use it like Rover's "Pure Swing".
 
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whipnzip

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I'd lacked hip rotation, then lacked shoulder rotation because of it, and finished the swing by collapsing my arms. I'd lost radius. A kid's water-wing to provide reference to have my right arm extend the left, while working on having better lower and upper body rotation helped. If the right arm bent too much, the water-wing would let me know, combined with a couple drills.

In the end I'd developed better rotation coupled with a shorter arm swing with greater radius. The water-wing helped develop that feel.

Some aids will help develop a feel, and there's nothing wrong with some of them; a mop is a great aid, though some gadgets like the Medicus are complete garbage, doing more harm than good.
 
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hp12c

hp12c

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Im a sick puppy Ive made my own home made training aids, 5 so far and have bought 3. for me I must say they helped. Would your videos be considered training aids? if so I should include them in my totals.
 
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