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Turned shoulder plane vs: Elbow plane
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Tom Bartlett
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Theoretically, right shoulder plane is better because the shoulder is moving down plane with the shaft giving it more support. But, some people naturally swing down on the elbow plane. Whichever one you use stick with that one. DO NOT try to change to the other. It has ruined many a player trying to do something that their body doesn't want to do on its own. I learned this from personal experience and Homer confirmed it in his audio.
Hi Tomquote:Originally posted by Tom Bartlett
Theoretically, right shoulder plane is better because the shoulder is moving down plane with the shaft giving it more support. But, some people naturally swing down on the elbow plane. Whichever one you use stick with that one. DO NOT try to change to the other. It has ruined many a player trying to do something that their body doesn't want to do on its own. I learned this from personal experience and Homer confirmed it in his audio.
How's it going?
If one easier than the other? Is it easier to maintain basic alignments with one over the other? I.E. spine angle, axis tilt, etc...
The reason I ask, a sports dome just opened about 35 miles ffrom home and I hit a bunch of balls there yesterday trying to get that darn short chip shot problem I have fixed. I found I could hit on a better line and could change the trajectory better using what I "think" was the elbow or right forearm plane to approach the ball.
I was hitting some decent 30 yard pitch shots that never got over 15 feet off the ground up to 80 yard shots that might have cleared 25 feet using my PW. It seemed to me it was easier to reach both arms straight and then turn my right hand over my left in the follow through. Of course this may have been a ONE TIME feel for me. That is the way my golf goes quite often. If I'm given long enough on the practice range I can find a pattern that works for that day, play with it and score pretty well.
I need to settle on one and "learn" it.
Steve
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
I'm doing pretty well thank you. The one that is easier, is the one that is natural to you. You have a double shift (you return to the elbow plane) so elbow plane is good for you.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Steve (LSH),
Tom is right, of course. But that DOESN'T mean that TRYING to go through the ball on the elbow plane MIGHT WORK BETTER.
Ben Doyle LOVES the elbow plane, and I have taught several golfers to shift to it with good results. The KEY here is with no shift you are having a problem, so a shift may be what you need.
Tom is right, of course. But that DOESN'T mean that TRYING to go through the ball on the elbow plane MIGHT WORK BETTER.
Ben Doyle LOVES the elbow plane, and I have taught several golfers to shift to it with good results. The KEY here is with no shift you are having a problem, so a shift may be what you need.
In Orlando I thought I was the only one on the video analysis of the taped swings that did not use the elbow plane.
At any rate I am not that well versed on the terminology so I am not real clear on what is meant by shift or double shift.
Could one of you explain the mechanics of swinging down and through on the elbow plane?
The feel I had yesterday was of bringing my elbow down to a point approximately above my right front pocket then swinging the shaft and forearm through the ball. Is that swinging on the elbow plane? or am I using the wrong terms?
At any rate I am not that well versed on the terminology so I am not real clear on what is meant by shift or double shift.
Could one of you explain the mechanics of swinging down and through on the elbow plane?
The feel I had yesterday was of bringing my elbow down to a point approximately above my right front pocket then swinging the shaft and forearm through the ball. Is that swinging on the elbow plane? or am I using the wrong terms?
Tom Bartlett
Administrator
Oh O.K. I see. You don't mean elbow plane. Elbow plane is when the club shaft is on plane with the right elbow. You swing on elbow plane through the ball. You were one of the few who did.
You mean pitch elbow position. When the right elbow gets in front of your body before impact. You were more of a punch(right elbow at side). By all means use the pitch position. It is the feeling, that the right elbow is leading the hands to the ball.
You mean pitch elbow position. When the right elbow gets in front of your body before impact. You were more of a punch(right elbow at side). By all means use the pitch position. It is the feeling, that the right elbow is leading the hands to the ball.
Pitch elbow is when the right forearm is directly opposed and in-line with the loading of the club and as a result of this in-line and loading its elbow location is in front of the hip....Thus enabling the hands to lead further into Trigger Delay...
Punch elbow is when the right forearm is directly opposed and in-line with the left arm and club and as a result of this in-line and loading its elbow location is down and to the side...
Trying to stick your right elbow way forward and under results in the flying wedge alignments being destroyed and a club that tends to be below plane...aka.."The perverted pitch"
Getting the right elbow Line of Sight to the ball is done with moving the right forearm angle of approach further forward,using maximum trigger delay,and making sure it "clears well forward of the right hip" while maintaining the structure of the right forearm flying wedge...Tucking, twisting, squeezing the right elbow way down deeply under to the naval is for the "pervert"
The GNAT
Punch elbow is when the right forearm is directly opposed and in-line with the left arm and club and as a result of this in-line and loading its elbow location is down and to the side...
Trying to stick your right elbow way forward and under results in the flying wedge alignments being destroyed and a club that tends to be below plane...aka.."The perverted pitch"
Getting the right elbow Line of Sight to the ball is done with moving the right forearm angle of approach further forward,using maximum trigger delay,and making sure it "clears well forward of the right hip" while maintaining the structure of the right forearm flying wedge...Tucking, twisting, squeezing the right elbow way down deeply under to the naval is for the "pervert"
The GNAT
quote:Originally posted by Non-AuthorizedTGM
Pitch elbow is when the right forearm is directly opposed and in-line with the loading of the club and as a result of this in-line and loading its elbow location is in front of the hip....Thus enabling the hands to lead further into Trigger Delay...
Punch elbow is when the right forearm is directly opposed and in-line with the left arm and club and as a result of this in-line and loading its elbow location is down and to the side...
Trying to stick your right elbow way forward and under results in the flying wedge alignments being destroyed and a club that tends to be below plane...aka.."The perverted pitch"
Getting the right elbow Line of Sight to the ball is done with moving the right forearm angle of approach further forward,using maximum trigger delay,and making sure it "clears well forward of the right hip" while maintaining the structure of the right forearm flying wedge...Tucking, twisting, squeezing the right elbow way down deeply under to the naval is for the "pervert"
The GNAT
Thanks for the elbow position descriptions. I believe I was using the pitch elbow. I hope to make it back to the sports dome this week to experiment more with this. I felt I was getting a good side bend and delivering the club to the ball on the same plane as my right forearm. I mabe wrong but what ever it was it worked pretty good and I'm going to see if I can repeat it.
Steve
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I agree with you swamp...but some people PLAY better on the turned shoulder plane.
I've heard before that the Turned Shoulder Plane is theoretically best because the shoulder supports the shaft, does that mean the shoulder should remain on the TSP at least as far as impact? If no, when is the shoulder actually providing this extra support? If the anser was yes, how can you have the right shoulder and forearm both on the same plane without having a straight arm?
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