upright swing and shot shape

[faux_maestro]

upright swing, shot shape tendencies

Question: Does an upright swing force a player into a natural left to right shot? Is it dangerous to try to hit draws from here?

I ask because I have made a few changes. I was trying to get a lower left arm at the top but I started thinking my lack of flexibility along with my swing DNA grooved for 20+ years makes that difficult. I took some video of some practice swings where my only thought was swing up the wall with a slightly flying right elbow and back down the wall and I liked the way it looked (which is always dangerous).

Anyway, I hit balls last week and was hitting some really pretty, high slight fades, then I started messing with some of the new release stuff, trying to get the bottom of the grip to swing really fast etc. I started hitting some really pretty, high draws that went FOREVER. A couple of days later those pretty high draws turned into high hooks that went FOREVER AND WAY LEFT. This morning I dropped the thought of doing anything with the handle at the bottom and went back to hitting high fades with a little less distance but really consistent. What could have caused the big hooks? Is that something that with this new pattern I should leave out?

EDIT: when I say "new release stuff" I meant from last parallel I was actively trying to pull up with the left hand/side and straighten the right wrist. Kind of a feeling of opposing forces to get the handle to rotate from last parallel before impact to first parallel after. Even after dropping that feeling I know that I'm not holding the right or left wrist at any particular angle.

 

[spktho]

Maybe you in trying to manipulate the grip you were delivering the clubface more closed.

 

[Bigwill]

I have a really upright swing, and I'm convinced after today's round that playing a fade with it is no good (for me anyway). My miss has always been right to right, and whenever I try to play a fade exclusively, that right to right shot comes in, and it becomes unstoppable and unplayable. Maybe the upright swing and the draw flight balance each other so that the ball doesn't get away from me?

There have been upright drawers (Hoch, Sabbatini apparently, and some other guys that I can't remember) and flat faders (Duvall, Hogan, Trevino, Azinger). Maybe there's something to playing a flight that offsets the flight tendency of the the plane (flat, upright).

Of course, I could be off by a mile, too.

 

[faux_maestro]

Maybe you in trying to manipulate the grip you were delivering the clubface more closed.

This is possible. It did work one day beautifully but the next time it went left off the planet and I couldn't do anything to stop it. The thing is that I know that I already let the club free-wheel pretty well, it was just when I tried to force the issue the second time that I had problems. If I could figure out what I did that first day it would be great, I was hitting 7 irons close to 170-ish in the air.

I have a really upright swing, and I'm convinced after today's round that playing a fade with it is no good (for me anyway). My miss has always been right to right, and whenever I try to play a fade exclusively, that right to right shot comes in, and it becomes unstoppable and unplayable. Maybe the upright swing and the draw flight balance each other so that the ball doesn't get away from me?

There have been upright drawers (Hoch, Sabbatini apparently, and some other guys that I can't remember) and flat faders (Duvall, Hogan, Trevino, Azinger). Maybe there's something to playing a flight that offsets the flight tendency of the the plane (flat, upright).

Of course, I could be off by a mile, too.

I've pretty much played a fade since I was in high school. I used to hit that big hook exclusively until I started taking lessons. My teacher had me learn a pattern a lot like NHA (pop out, up the wall, swing left) and he emphasized width both back and through and an upright plane. I never had trouble with the right to right shot though, my miss was always pulls and pull hooks (clubface not matching path issues AND not knowing the D-plane).

It's an interesting thought though about plane and flight tendency. I remember hearing that Nicklaus struggled with hooks when he was young because of what he called "flash hands" at the bottom and he was mostly a fader of the ball. Do you use twist away to get the club more closed or is it a release thing that gives you your draw?

 

[Bigwill]

I've pretty much played a fade since I was in high school. I used to hit that big hook exclusively until I started taking lessons. My teacher had me learn a pattern a lot like NHA (pop out, up the wall, swing left) and he emphasized width both back and through and an upright plane. I never had trouble with the right to right shot though, my miss was always pulls and pull hooks (clubface not matching path issues AND not knowing the D-plane).

It's an interesting thought though about plane and flight tendency. I remember hearing that Nicklaus struggled with hooks when he was young because of what he called "flash hands" at the bottom and he was mostly a fader of the ball. Do you use twist away to get the club more closed or is it a release thing that gives you your draw?

I play with a pretty strong grip, so I've always been shut-faced, even when I was a slicer. As to the how, I'm not really conscious of what my hands are doing during the swing, but I know I'm not actively rolling them through impact or twisting them on the takeaway. It's like I hold the face, and use the path to spin the ball, I suppose.

Whenever I want to fade or draw it, my last thought before takeaway is "hit a fade/draw". I do have the distinct feeling of my right shoulder turning level or high through impact (video shows me it isn't high or roundhouse at all); the more I wanna hook it, the more pronounced it is. But it isn't something that I key on.

It feels to me like I'm spinning a bounce pass around a defender to a post player in basket ball, except the clubface is my hand and the golf ball is the basketball. Weird, I know...

 

[faux_maestro]

I play with a pretty strong grip, so I've always been shut-faced, even when I was a slicer. As to the how, I'm not really conscious of what my hands are doing during the swing, but I know I'm not actively rolling them through impact or twisting them on the takeaway. It's like I hold the face, and use the path to spin the ball, I suppose.

Whenever I want to fade or draw it, my last thought before takeaway is "hit a fade/draw". I do have the distinct feeling of my right shoulder turning level or high through impact (video shows me it isn't high or roundhouse at all); the more I wanna hook it, the more pronounced it is. But it isn't something that I key on.

It feels to me like I'm spinning a bounce pass around a defender to a post player in basket ball, except the clubface is my hand and the golf ball is the basketball. Weird, I know...

Whatever gets the job done!

 

[faux_maestro]

ALSO, another question. What are the implications of an "up the wall" NHA type backswing without much popout or rotating the left arm early (but maintaining a square clubface at the top)?

 

[magicmarker]

I ask because I have made a few changes. I was trying to get a lower left arm at the top but I started thinking my lack of flexibility along with my swing DNA grooved for 20+ years makes that difficult. I took some video of some practice swings where my only thought was swing up the wall with a slightly flying right elbow and back down the wall and I liked the way it looked (which is always dangerous).

Anyway, I hit balls last week and was hitting some really pretty, high slight fades, then I started messing with some of the new release stuff, trying to get the bottom of the grip to swing really fast etc. I started hitting some really pretty, high draws that went FOREVER. A couple of days later those pretty high draws turned into high hooks that went FOREVER AND WAY LEFT. This morning I dropped the thought of doing anything with the handle at the bottom and went back to hitting high fades with a little less distance but really consistent. What could have caused the big hooks? Is that something that with this new pattern I should leave out?

you are not doing enough "spiderman" with the left hand.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Left on its own, an upright shaft angle will open and a flat shaft angle will close with the same hand path

 

[faux_maestro]

you are not doing enough "spiderman" with the left hand.

This was my suspicion. I'm trying to break through a couple of years of "STLOC"....

Left on its own, an upright shaft angle will open and a flat shaft angle will close with the same hand path

Thanks Kevin. That's what I was thinking. My contact and flight was pretty pure and I'm thinking of going full NHA, it's similar to what my last teacher taught me. Are there any adjustments for that pattern based on new information? Is the "not enough spiderman" something to look for if I'm hooking while aggressively trying to rotate the handle? Is that even something I should use?