Using D-plane and corrected ball flight laws to fix my snap hooks?

[mitchdoc]

Ok well seems I have some new weird problem.
On the range I take aim at my target and hit a variety of shaped shots: from slight pull or push to slight fade or draw to straight.
That being said, the ball flies rarely more than 10-15 yards from the target I aim at.

On the course it is a different matter. I am sure it is mental, but I snap hook shots off the tee about 50% of the time, but only with the driver. Rarely with a 3 wood off the tee and never with an iron off the ground. The drives typically fly low start straight to left of straight and curve further left. MY usual driver distance of 255-270 drops off on those shots to under 200 yards as they hit the ground fast usually in rough or worse.

I am sure tension is causing some element of what is happening, but I thing there is more to it since it only seems to happen with the driver.I will also get a few push fades happening to (probably in a subconscious effort to not go left)

I am a bit of a D-plane correct ballflight laws novice, but if I understand correctly my path is likely very right of target with a very closed clubface? I suspect I have a shallow angle of attack in general as I typically take minimal divots and I am overly low spin on the driver when measured on a vector. I do not have access to trackman.

I tried NHA 2.0 swing yesterday on the course a bit and on the range after my round with mixed results. On the course it lead to to of the most right fades I have hit in my life, one ending up on the far side of the fairway on the adjacent hole!!!!! On the range I was getting straight to slight cut movement but the trajectory was suddenly very low.

So the big question is, in describing my errors those of you (Brian , other instructors, smart dudes....) you probably can give me some idea of my aim, my face and my path and perhaps some drills or ideas on how to fix them enough so I can get around the golf course.
I currently play to an 8 hcp but I am shooting anywhere from 80-88 of late depending on how many shots wasted punching out of trouble (usually at least 6) after a crooked drive.

 

[cmartingolf]

Mitch,

Not seeing your swing, I'll share some stuff that might help you.

D-Plane 101...the ball will start where the face is aiming and work away from the path.

So, if you don't want to hit hooks, you can work on a left-ward path. Now feel and real are different things. It's hard to describe how left I feel. I hit some balls with Brian at the Vegas GTE and I was 3 degrees (that number sticks out) down and about the same left. The result was a slight fade. We worked on better numbers that produce more distance, but I can't pull that off when I'm playing. I get too many "others" to score well. I don't practice or play enough to incorporate the chance, but a slightly upward hit sure added some distance. That said, my "go to" find the fairway swing is a steepish, leftward action that produces a straight or slight fade. One day I'll spend some time and try and work out the path and face, but for now, that's who I "brung to the dance."

 

[Dan44GT]

Mitch,

Dont forget centeredness of contact. Not sure what your speed is, but with high swing speeds, and a driver, centeredness can create significant curve. If you are closed face, which may introduce toe to ball first, with an outward true path you'll have three things influencing left of left with driver.

Also, I would check your driver and 3 wood specs if you are not seeing a similar shot shape with the 3 wood. Check swing weight and length, as well as flex properties with a reliable club builder.

 

[mitchdoc]

thanks and good advice.
I am playing a supertri driver which has a black face. From there I can tell that contact is pretty center faced so I would like to keep it out of the equation.
Since this does not seem to be an issue with the shorter clubs, I don't necessarily want to change my swing. I am hoping maybe some setup and alignment things and perhaps grip might provide me with a way to get a straighter bllflight with the driver or at least not the crazy left miss.

 

[mitchdoc]

so?
Any thoughts to ball position? setup at address? grip?

 

[gavigan]

I'm not very well qualified to help you, but I do have the same problem you describe with the driver and here's where I'm at. I hit my wedges and irons very straight, all the way to 3W. When I pull out the driver I play a slight fade on the rare occasions I hit it well, the rest of the time it's a huge slice or a low snap hook left. My scores are similar to yours too, completely dependent on how much trouble I'm in off the tee.

As far as I can figure out, here's what's happening with my driver swing. First problem is if my left arm bends too much on the backswing. Then it straightens unpredictably on the downswing which can smother the clubface at impact. Second problem (this may be the key one) is my elbows separate too easily at the top of the backswing, leading to crooked elbows at impact and all sorts of clubface alignment problems. I've been working on better control of the left arm and elbows, but suspect it's not this complicated since I can go for stretches of hitting the ball very long and straight, then lose it completely with snap hooks and slices 2 fairways over.

Hope this helps even a little.

 

[softconsult]

There is just simply something about actually being on a tee box versus hitting range balls.

I to fight the low snipers to the left. Manzella asked me I had the ball so far back with the Driver.
Moving it forward helped. Mike Jacobs showed me how far left I was aiming. Got me aiming more right and widened my stance. This shallowed out a too steep Vertical Swing Plane. This helped, but I still hit the random snapper.
This then gets in your head, and lobbies for another one.

Now here is another well know cause. It's simply getting lazy with your swing sequencing. If you don't keep
the lower ahead of the upper in the race to the ball, then the hands get ahead and el snappo happens.

In my Senior League tournament on Monday, we came to the Long Drive hole. I had hit 3 Wood until this hole.
One of my playing partners, who I know well, says, "Why don't you just finish your swing?" I told him that I would have to actually stretch some muscles and make an athletic swing to do that. He hit his drive down the center, but 10 yards short of the placard for our age group. I stepped up, made a real pivot, and finished the swing. Piped it down the center 40 yards past the placard.

Also it makes sense that if the Pro's can struggle to find a Driver they can control, then we shouldn't be surprised
if we haven't found the club yet. I'm experimenting with heavier shaft and shorter length for better control.

 

[mitchdoc]

Played today and snapped about 4 drives and had some other go less left but still left.
My playing partner noticed on the 18th hole that my ball position seemd quite forward. He said I appeared t have it outside my left foot (I am RH).
How does that equate with theD-plane and ball flight laws.
For fun I hit a second drive with the ball further back in my stance and while it went a little bit left it was in the fairway and I made birdie on the second ball.

 

[dannyc]

Played today and snapped about 4 drives and had some other go less left but still left.
My playing partner noticed on the 18th hole that my ball position seemd quite forward. He said I appeared t have it outside my left foot (I am RH).
How does that equate with theD-plane and ball flight laws.
For fun I hit a second drive with the ball further back in my stance and while it went a little bit left it was in the fairway and I made birdie on the second ball.

with the ball forward, AA should be less down and path less right, making it less likely to hit a hook.
i would guess if you hit the 2nd ball less left, your face was more open.

 

[mitchdoc]

If Low point is usually below left armpit and ball position is way forward of that, yes the clubehead will hit it on an ascending blow, but at the same time , if I release the clubhead as I do naturally for all my other shots won't the club face be relatively closed by the time the head reaches the ball?
Same thing with putting ball back in ones stance, if one doesn't adjust the face, the will be open at that point leading to a ball starting more right.