Does anyone one have a starting point for VSP numbers? My driver's lie angle is 58*, the VSP cited in most examples is 45* (due to lowering and shaft droop etc.) Or is lie angle a good starting point? I checked the Trackman newsletters in the hope they had a tour average of some sort but I could not find anything.
VSP #'s
- Thread starter ScottRob
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softconsult
New
Note that a 58 degree driver doesn't have to be soled flat. On the heel is common.
softconsult
New
I think I remember Mike Jacobs telling me that VSP for Driver should be 45 - 48. Also fairly sure we were trying to get 6 iron to 60 degrees.
Unscientific Analysis
I have been messing around with the aimy thingy calculator.
I used the tour averages compiled by Trackman for carry and attack angle. I added standard lie angles for the VSP (yes I know they are not neccessarily the same.) what I wanted to find out was just how much the HSP would have to be moved LEFT, considering on average tour players hit down on EVERYTHING.
Driver - 5.3 yards
3w - 9.6 yards
5w - 9.6 yards
3i- 7.4
4i - 7.2
5i - 7.2
6i - 7.2
7i - 6.8
8i - 6.5
9i - 6.1
pw - 5.9
Now I suspect that these number are spot on, but they can't be that far off, right?
I'm not sure a casual observer can tell if a player is aiming left with these type of yardages. Obviously their averages represent relatively shallow angle of attacks (driver being the exception) 3i through 7i there is much of a muchness in terms of aiming left. This to me is good news. I am looking for a visual range. I cannot handle talk of degrees as far as adjusting the HSP in concerned...I need yards (I'll even take meters!) So my conclusion is that tour players (as an average aim between 5-10 yards left.) My swing speed is fractionally faster than tour average (I do not thread drives for a living!) I have not measured my AoA, but I suspect that it is a degree or so steeper than tour averages.
Whaddyathink?
also, anybody know of a Trackman operator in the Jupiter FL area?
I have been messing around with the aimy thingy calculator.
I used the tour averages compiled by Trackman for carry and attack angle. I added standard lie angles for the VSP (yes I know they are not neccessarily the same.) what I wanted to find out was just how much the HSP would have to be moved LEFT, considering on average tour players hit down on EVERYTHING.
Driver - 5.3 yards
3w - 9.6 yards
5w - 9.6 yards
3i- 7.4
4i - 7.2
5i - 7.2
6i - 7.2
7i - 6.8
8i - 6.5
9i - 6.1
pw - 5.9
Now I suspect that these number are spot on, but they can't be that far off, right?
I'm not sure a casual observer can tell if a player is aiming left with these type of yardages. Obviously their averages represent relatively shallow angle of attacks (driver being the exception) 3i through 7i there is much of a muchness in terms of aiming left. This to me is good news. I am looking for a visual range. I cannot handle talk of degrees as far as adjusting the HSP in concerned...I need yards (I'll even take meters!) So my conclusion is that tour players (as an average aim between 5-10 yards left.) My swing speed is fractionally faster than tour average (I do not thread drives for a living!) I have not measured my AoA, but I suspect that it is a degree or so steeper than tour averages.
Whaddyathink?
also, anybody know of a Trackman operator in the Jupiter FL area?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Martin Hall has a Trackman at Ibis.
Also, you cant say PGA tour players aim on average anything. That might be the case only for the ones who hit it straight, have average VSPs, AoA, and actually swing along their stance lines. A minority I might think.
Also, you cant say PGA tour players aim on average anything. That might be the case only for the ones who hit it straight, have average VSPs, AoA, and actually swing along their stance lines. A minority I might think.
I wonder what his rate is?
I know that the number have no basis in reality was far as anyone pro is concerned. However, if there was an individual pro whose numbers were represented by the average he would have to adjust the HSP for the given VSP, AA and distance, right? I am sure there are a handful of players whose personal numbers are close to the average. In fact I do not think I am that far off, although I am only guessing on AA.
This is the practical value of my little exercise (with snow induced cabin fever setting in.) When I next hit golf balls I will pay particular attention to the intention of my percieved HSP. I will aim my 8 iron 5-7 yards to the left of the actual target. Without Trackman it is a big crapshoot as to what is really going on, but I will actively working on adjusting for the resultant path of a downward/upward strike.
If I may slip a question in concerning ball postion? Say I am hitting the same 8i I reference above and I reorient my HSP leftwards. As I wheel to the left the ball appears to move back in my stance because of my diagonal stance to the target line, right. So (I hope this does not sound dumb) is my ball postion in relationship to the HSP or the target line? I do not think I have communicated my confusion clearly (although I have removed all doubt!)
If I stand ala train tracks to the target line with the ball off my left heel, then aim left the ball feels as though it is back in my stance. I suspect that the ball's relationship with the HSP is more important than the target, and may explain some underplane issues.
I know that the number have no basis in reality was far as anyone pro is concerned. However, if there was an individual pro whose numbers were represented by the average he would have to adjust the HSP for the given VSP, AA and distance, right? I am sure there are a handful of players whose personal numbers are close to the average. In fact I do not think I am that far off, although I am only guessing on AA.
This is the practical value of my little exercise (with snow induced cabin fever setting in.) When I next hit golf balls I will pay particular attention to the intention of my percieved HSP. I will aim my 8 iron 5-7 yards to the left of the actual target. Without Trackman it is a big crapshoot as to what is really going on, but I will actively working on adjusting for the resultant path of a downward/upward strike.
If I may slip a question in concerning ball postion? Say I am hitting the same 8i I reference above and I reorient my HSP leftwards. As I wheel to the left the ball appears to move back in my stance because of my diagonal stance to the target line, right. So (I hope this does not sound dumb) is my ball postion in relationship to the HSP or the target line? I do not think I have communicated my confusion clearly (although I have removed all doubt!)
If I stand ala train tracks to the target line with the ball off my left heel, then aim left the ball feels as though it is back in my stance. I suspect that the ball's relationship with the HSP is more important than the target, and may explain some underplane issues.
mjstrong
New
I would think you'd want to shuffle your back away from the target until you restored your ball position so that it's the same relative to your new, leftward HSP.
As we change our alignment in this way, our feet/shoulders are turning left due to the counter clockwise position change that we're looking for.
Another way of looking at this: if you felt like your chest was facing/square to the ball before you changed your HSP, it should again feel like your chest is square to the ball after you've moved your HSP left. This should help maintain the same AoA and thus HSP/Path relationship as you had before.
Much easier to show than it is to explain.
As we change our alignment in this way, our feet/shoulders are turning left due to the counter clockwise position change that we're looking for.
Another way of looking at this: if you felt like your chest was facing/square to the ball before you changed your HSP, it should again feel like your chest is square to the ball after you've moved your HSP left. This should help maintain the same AoA and thus HSP/Path relationship as you had before.
Much easier to show than it is to explain.
Concise way of putting it. Thanks.
I thought as much, just wanted some expert confirmation. Thank you. I suspect that my tendency is to stay square to the target line in terms of ball postion (if that make sense.) My tendency to get under plane is in part due to how I position the ball. It can also be that my ball postion is back to accomodate the underplane downswing. Which one I wonder?
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