What am I seeing here?

[Ringer]

I have been watching several slo-motion swings on youtube of professionals and one thing I am consistently seeing is a position at the top where the right forearm is nearly vertical under the shaft.

I'm really beginning to think this has a lot to do with the path the club will take going forward.

Although there are a few players who do get the elbow out slightly (like Bubba Watson) it seems those players who get the elbow under bring the club well from the the inside and never OTT.

However anyone with an elbow that goes out DOES have an OTT move with some compensations to square the face.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has caught this correlation. I would imagine this is the "carry the tray" idea that has been discussed here before as well as the "fold the right hand back" that Brian teaches in NSA.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Can you provide a link to just 1? Hard time visualing. I think you are talking more about a right elbow that is point more down at the ground versus one that is more flyn' like jack?

 

[Ringer]

Can you provide a link to just 1? Hard time visualing. I think you are talking more about a right elbow that is point more down at the ground versus one that is more flyn' like jack?

Yes. I notice that the right arm tends to point the elbow straight down. Then during the forward swing it stays pretty much vertical until almost hip high with a lot of tour guys. However the average amateur swing seems to have the elbow "flying" all the way to the ball. It seems logical that this would push the left arm to swing more vertically and OTT from the path going back.

I'll get some comparison pictures up for you in a bit.

 

[Ringer]

Some images

Disregard the yellowish lines and instead focus on the red lines.

Anthony Kim

Adam Scott

Phil

And then there's this chump....

Compared to all the tour guys, I'm WAY too far out from under it. I also have an OTT move that I save with my hands but still hit semi-cuts. I'm thinking this may be a cause that I should target in my own swing.

 

[jenhaoyen]

ALL THREE HAVE DIFFERENT RED LINES...WHAT'S THE POINT?

 

[Ringer]

ALL THREE HAVE DIFFERENT RED LINES...WHAT'S THE POINT?

Yes they are different but in general they have their right arm vertical at the top and keep the elbow under the hands very deep into the forward swing. They seem to be bringing the club on a similar plane to their back-swing.

I however do not. I have the elbow pointing away and the right elbow is never under the hands.

 

[lookingtolearn]

From what I've seen, there are many more "out" forearms than "down" forearms on tour. Yes, there are some that have it down (Kim, Scott, O'Hair, McIlroy), but for every one of those guys, you have several that have it more out.

 

[Ringer]

From what I've seen, there are many more "out" forearms than "down" forearms on tour. Yes, there are some that have it down (Kim, Scott, O'Hair, McIlroy), but for every one of those guys, you have several that have it more out.

I see completely the opposite. Nearly every "swing vision" on youtube they have the elbow pointing down. Luke Donald, Trevor Immelman, Tiger, Ernie (for the most part), Hogan, the list goes on and on.

Some guys like Retief and Bubba certainly get that elbow pointing out but far and away I'm seeing the majority of them get the elbow pointing straight down.... not out as is in my own swing.

 

[Matt Bryda]

Ringer,
So these guys stay back turned longer into the delivery than you.
Is that what you mean?

 

[lookingtolearn]

Check out some of these for starters:

YouTube - Lake1926's Channel

 

[lookingtolearn]

And just to clarify Ringer, I am not saying one position is better than the other. A down right elbow is exactly what some people need, and it may help you do what you are trying to do. All I am saying is that I think it is inaccurate to state that most tour players have a vertical right forearm at the top of the swing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

#1 & #2

I totally disagree with Ringer's assumption.

I will say that the current fad on tour is more of a down elbow, but at the Zurich this week I am seeing some fads from the last couple of years dying out.

In my 28 years of teaching experience, working with everyone from David Toms to David the 30 'capper, and having spent nearly 10 years in the early middle of my career TEACHING right forearm down at the top, I can say with conviction that I think it is a dangerous position to be in.

It tends to create pop-out and over rotation of the left arm flying wedge, among other things.

If it works for a particular golfer, fine.

But I prefer this:

 

[Ringer]

Do you think there is a correlation between the steepness of their shoulder turn and that position? Seems if you tilted their shoulders up to about where mine are they would have thier elbows under it. Not saying I disagree, I'm just trying to figure this out.

 

[vjsinger]

Brian, Are those 2 pics from the Shell Match? I frickin' LOVED Jacks swing then!! I think the pivot turn steepness and hand path are related to where you put that trail arm..yes.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Do you think there is a correlation between the steepness of their shoulder turn and that position? Seems if you tilted their shoulders up to about where mine are they would have thier elbows under it. Not saying I disagree, I'm just trying to figure this out.

i would disagree, i have a fairly FLAT shoulder turn and i have a very "down" elbow and as brian says i am "prone" to over rotation of the left arm wedge and pop out. But generally i find it easier to play with a down elbow. Just me though.