What happens on a slight toe (side of the COG) strike - with Dr. Paul Wood comments

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Brian Manzella

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"The thing to bear in mind is that the club is rotating around the shaft axis as it moves through space, so the impact, no matter whether it is a heel or a toe impact, is going to slow down that rotation while the ball is on the face. The whole club is slowing down from 100+mph to 60-70mph in less than a ms. We’ve done high speed video work with center, heel and toe shots and you see an instantaneous slowing down of the rotation during impact.

In the video, you can see the club start closing again a few inches after impact, toward the end of the video. This is the “swing force” taking back over from the “impact force” which was dominant for a few hundred microseconds. If you compare a big toe hit to this (slight toe hit), you’ll see the club really kick open a lot more than that both during and after impact and it takes a lot longer for the “swing force” to take back over and for the head to start closing. On the other end of the scale, with a big heel shot you would see the face shut right down straight away after impact pretty much." —Dr. Paul Wood
 
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cwdlaw223

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Brian -

Should we even discuss closing rates by looking at anything post impact? The rate before impact is what truly counts and the impact collision seems to create two distinct speeds. I wonder if the faster the club head speed the more the collision will affect the post impact shaft speed and or closing rate speed?
 
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Brian Manzella

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One of things we are looking into, so much so that we are traveling across the country to research it soon, is the out-of-phase portion of the swing, where the grip is doing one thing, and the face is doing something "else" out-of-phase.

And a whole bunch of other REAL SCIENTIFIC DATA.

Not video.
 
coach

coach

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Brian Manzella said:
One of things we are looking into, so much so that we are traveling across the country to research it soon, is the out-of-phase portion of the swing, where the grip is doing one thing, and the face is doing something "else" out-of-phase.

And a whole bunch of other REAL SCIENTIFIC DATA.

Not video.
Click to expand...

So out of phase would it be if clubface twists say X degrees open then the grip is closeing X degrees ?? When i think of phase I think along the lines of a sine wave positive phase and an equal negative phase
 
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Brian Manzella

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coach said:
So out of phase would it be if clubface twists say X degrees open then the grip is closeing X degrees ?? When i think of phase I think along the lines of a sine wave positive phase and an equal negative phase
Click to expand...

Well the grip could be twist an amount that should cause x° but it is closing x-2°

Get it?
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Interesting that Wood said that the head is rotating around the shaft axis before impact. I wonder.......how much......say in the area a few feet before impact? And do any Tour pros have a zero rate of clubface closurearound the shaft axis in this zone?
 
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Brian Manzella

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Todd Dugan said:
Interesting that Wood said that the head is rotating around the shaft axis before impact. I wonder.......how much......say in the area a few feet before impact? And do any Tour pros have a zero rate of clubface closurearound the shaft axis in this zone?
Click to expand...

I'll ask in a follow-up with Paul.

I bet the answer is no, but I don't know, and that's why we have REAL scientists in the golf business to consult with.
 
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Brian Manzella

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Here is the deal:

We got tired a few years back arguing with the folks who thought "a certain book" was a flawless work of science.

Round-and-round we'd go.

Then came Dr. Aaron Zick, and the whole house of cards came down piece by piece.

So we started to find the top scientists in the game, and get some real info. Some things, like what the body does, is very debatable. Some things like what the club does, is basically known.

So here we are.

We knew the club was getting knocked open and knocked closed, so we sent a note and the OP video to Paul for his comments.

These comments are irrefutable in the world of golf instruction forums, where we are armed with $1000 cameras and mid-priced 3d systems. At places like PING and Callaway and Titleist, they have $100,000 cameras, $200,000 3D systems, things you never heard of, and guys who have PHDs in Solar Physics like Paul.

But, as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, folks who think they know more than Paul, will argue their little knowledge 'til the cows come home.

The cows are gone.

And so are they.

Next.
 
Matt 4-L

Matt 4-L

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Todd Dugan said:
Interesting that Wood said that the head is rotating around the shaft axis before impact. I wonder.......how much......say in the area a few feet before impact? And do any Tour pros have a zero rate of clubface closurearound the shaft axis in this zone?
Click to expand...

I wonder if those interchangeble weighted drivers have a real effect on slowing or speeding up the rate.
 
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GeoffDickson

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Wouldn't a heel hit increase the rotation speed of the club head (momentarily)?

So the 'club is slowing down from 100+mph to 60-70mph in less than a ms'....that's 30-40%...holy cow!
 
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SteveT

Guest
Please ask Dr. Wood how far off center you can hit before extra MOI, rearward CofG and gear effect become irrelevant... 1/2"?.. 1"??
 
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leon

New
GeoffDickson said:
Wouldn't a heel hit increase the rotation speed of the club head (momentarily)?
Click to expand...

The club is rotating about the shaft, so impact anywhere on the face will work against that (unless it is a massive heel hit on a centre shafted putter!)

So the 'club is slowing down from 100+mph to 60-70mph in less than a ms'....that's 30-40%...holy cow!
Click to expand...
Yep, and the energy transferred to the ball is proportional to velocity squared!

Wish I was starting from 100+ though :(
 
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