What Is Downswing Width? Its Effects?

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sean_craig

Banned
I get very confused regarding downswing width.

I remember well back in the early 2000s just around the Tiger/Butch and A.Scott/Butch era a lot of discussion about downswing width. What is downswing width?

Wouldn't a straight left arm during the downswing create a circle that is maximally wide? Is downswing width instead a measure of left arm/shaft? If that is the case, then wouldn't creating downswing width mean giving away clubhead lag?

Are wide downswings by their nature shallower, creating a less spinny flight? What about power reprecussions?

When I think of a wide downswing, I think of Greg Norman and Adam Scott.

When I think of narrow downswings, I think of Sergio Garcia and Ben Hogan.

What's going on here?
 
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spktho

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The width of the downswing is mostly affected by how long wrist cock is held in the left wrist and how long the right wrist is bent. How soon the right elbow straightens also plays a large part in the width of the downswing. Most "laid off" or lower hands transition swings also tend to have narrower downswings. The larger downswing width swing is also known as more of a sweep release which some say is losing lag too early and causes a loss in power. This argument has proven to have no basis. I think it is safe to say that a sweep release generally results in a shallower AofA, but not necessarily always. Sweep releasers just get the ball around the course with a different swing than the delayed releasers.

How AofA affects ballflight is stretching my knowledge base a bit because of how it affects the other D-plane factors, but one should be able to get the same impact conditions with a sweep release as with a delayed release and vice versa.
 
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DCgolf

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How long is the club tangent to the ground? Longer is wider, shorter is narrower. We have information to suggest that release point is not a power issue , but it is certainly a bottom of swing issue.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
When a teacher starts talking about width, either backswing or downswing, that's when I start reading MacRumors.

You either have it—Lindsay Gahm, Tom Watson

Or you don't—Rickie Fowler, Sergio Garcia

If you try to add width—Olazabal, Justin Leonard—you better RUN back to your old teacher.
 
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DCgolf

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I think Jack's backswing was narrow even if he swung wide because of his plane. I think a vertical shaft plane is narrow and a flat shaft plane is wide. Hogan was super wide hence all the lag to narrow it coming down. Watson was very narrow (upright) hence the early wide release coming down. No?
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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DCgolf said:
I think Jack's backswing was narrow even if he swung wide because of his plane. I think a vertical shaft plane is narrow and a flat shaft plane is wide. Hogan was super wide hence all the lag to narrow it coming down. Watson was very narrow (upright) hence the early wide release coming down. No?
Click to expand...

Jack talked about releasing from the top "as long as you move to your left side" (I have a lot of that video memorized from wearing out the VHS as a 10 year old). Sounds wide-wide but I'm not an expert.
 
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sean_craig

Banned
Brian Manzella said:
When a teacher starts talking about width, either backswing or downswing, that's when I start reading MacRumors.

You either have it—Lindsay Gahm, Tom Watson

Or you don't—Rickie Fowler, Sergio Garcia

If you try to add width—Olazabal, Justin Leonard—you better RUN back to your old teacher.
Click to expand...

Brian,

I find this response very interesting. Why is adding width in the downswing detrimental if it's not natural? Can width be added if you change pivot dynamics, or other elements of the golf swing?

You're referencing JM Olazabal and J Leonard are interesting. I always figured wide downswings were a part of his teaching philosophy. G Norman, A Scott, T. Woods, and his work with Phil Mickelson leads me to believe his preference is that of wide downswings, sweep release, etc. Why is this? What are the benefits of downswing width?

Does creating downswing width reduce spin rate?
 
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DCgolf

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faux_maestro said:
Jack talked about releasing from the top "as long as you move to your left side" (I have a lot of that video memorized from wearing out the VHS as a 10 year old). Sounds wide-wide but I'm not an expert.
Click to expand...

Yep. The two are compatible. Releasing early HAS to be offset but a strong move left coming down to bring bottom forward. But remember his plane was vertical. Like all the Ballard guys with the big sway. Vertical planes to offset. And why Garcia and Hogan have/had so much lag
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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DCgolf said:
Yep. The two are compatible. Releasing early HAS to be offset but a strong move left coming down to bring bottom forward. But remember his plane was vertical. Like all the Ballard guys with the big sway. Vertical planes to offset. And why Garcia and Hogan have/had so much lag
Click to expand...

So does this account for Sergio being wide going back? He appears wider going back but also more upright.
 
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aaron_lohan

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I hear commentators saying: "he hit a bad shot because he was narrow in the downswing", i've never fully understood what that means. They said it at the US Open when Rory hit a bad shot.
 
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DCgolf

New
Narow

Club face, path and angle are what matter. Narrow, wide are only problems when they affect impact. When narrow causes steep and wide causes shallow, THEN they are a problem. Phil is VERY narrow down, but I'd like to have his impact.
 
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sean_craig

Banned
How can one be narrow but shallow? I have a tendency to be both narrow and steep coming down. It's a difficult fix that's been driving me nuts. I'm a pretty solid iron player but really struggle off the tee despite tremendous swing speeds.

My clubhead speed is in the mid 120s, ball speed between 173-181. Spin rates get well into the 3,000s.

Whiteboard + Titleist D4 still too spinny of a traj.
 
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