What the next phase of Golf Instruction SHOULD be.

[Brian Manzella]

Here what (at least) I know works for sure (since steel shafts).

-Flat Left wrist at the top and impact (but not nesc. anywhere else).

-Athletic looking top of the backswing positions.

-Good PATH vs Clubface control.

-Nice looking address positions with mid-body-ish hands.

-Clubhead lag PRESSURE and trigger delay (at least some).

All the attention should be focused on how BEST to get golfers to do this.

The JOKE is, that no one can agree on this list, even though, the HALL-OF-FAME has settled this already.

EONS of man hours wasted.

 

[Martee]

I am not sure I agree with you that it is a joke, it is really a sad coment on the state of golf instruction with the unknowing golfer paying the price...

Nice concise list...

 

[dbl]

If the different methods work then they don't have to be in agreement. There can be many schools of thought. If Moe or Sandy Lyle want to do NG, or someone wants to copy Hogan or someone wants to copy Bobby Jones, let them.

Regarding that list, to what degree does lack of agreement on address and backswing position effect the average golfer? The average golfer is bad due to his own misconceptions. If he would pick a proven procedure, instead of runing tip to tip, he could improve.

 

[birdie_man]

Brian...

That IS a joke...if some teachers couldn't agree with that, that is...(not sure who exactly but I wouldn't doubt it to happen).

I've only been "around" (and only around HERE) for a few years....

And even I know....that if anyone doesn't at least accept ALL of what you have up there...they don't know....

...crap.

 

[dbl]

Birdie, now hold on, that's a bit strong. Some players with a strong grip will have a cupped left wrist at the top. Maybe teachers might not advocate it for all their players, but they mey well "allow" a certain student to continue that way.

The other points Brian listed are good orthodox things (which he says the hof players use), but there may be some elements near the edges of orthodoxy which also work.

Right away, the athletic position at the top isn't real well defined and MUST have a great deal of variation within acceptable bounds.

Nonetheless, I DO agree that in forming this list of ideals they must contribute to good impact, and I think Brian's list does that. Can other ways? Maybe.

 

[tongzilla]

That's just a Manzella-ish way of saying the 3 Imperatives.

 

[Brian Manzella]

another Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiif....

No Leo,

It is my way of saying that LOTS of pop-teachers don't teach the list above, and most of it isn't in the Kool-Aid either.

 

[tongzilla]

You talk about the flat left wrist at impact, clubhead lag pressure and clubhead path, and yet you say it's got nothing to do with the 3 imperatives.

The only "original" thing I can see is the flat left wrist at the top.

Yes, I agree lots of pop teachers don't teach that list...but talking about Kool-Aid...

 

[Brian Manzella]

It IS what it IS.

The fact is that THE GOLFING MACHINE does not have an official swing and thankfully it isn't the one I have been fixing.

 

[birdie_man]

Birdie, now hold on, that's a bit strong. Some players with a strong grip will have a cupped left wrist at the top. Maybe teachers might not advocate it for all their players, but they mey well "allow" a certain student to continue that way.

The other points Brian listed are good orthodox things (which he says the hof players use), but there may be some elements near the edges of orthodoxy which also work.

Right away, the athletic position at the top isn't real well defined and MUST have a great deal of variation within acceptable bounds.

Nonetheless, I DO agree that in forming this list of ideals they must contribute to good impact, and I think Brian's list does that. Can other ways? Maybe.

I know I know.....

Ya I just re-read that (my last post)....came off a bit Nazi-ish or w/e....

When I typed:

"at least accept"

....that's what I really meant (the "at least ACCEPT").....the rest of the post coulda been written clearer.

...

I think I know what Brian meant by "athletic at the Top"....but maybe Brian can define it better for us.

 

[dbl]

Okay.

As to that athletic at the top, yes I'd like to hear what Brian means. Is Stadler achletic at the top? (Yoikes!) Or bent over like SP?

In any case, speaking to what Brian meant in the first post, can you imagine if the PGA put into their manuals what defines a good a good golf swing (like this list), and how to get people there? Worlds would shake and crumble, I suppose. As it is, tgm AI's have the outside advantage, but even if imperatives and essentials were blessed, the local yokel pro would be hard pressed to get people there, considering their training is heavy on running the pro shop.

 

[birdie_man]

Oh ok I see what u mean....i.e. "method teaching."

...

From what I can see......this is exactly what Brian has determined to work best....most of the time.....from his years of experience in teaching.

...

And I wouldn't doubt that while this is Brian's most preferred stuff to teach people (that works the highest PERCENTAGE of the time)....he would teach something else to certain people if it worked better for them...(and likewise would not change some1 to this from whatever they were doing that was already working well).....I mean, I'm not Brian....but I know that's how he teaches anyway.

I dunno man....and to me anyway....this is a pretty neutral list.....no weird stuff.

...

He hasn't listed any preferred plane shifts, etc. in his list either.

All this list has is setup, top-of-swing, and 3 Imparatives....basically.

...

I think the main point is that this list is a good list.....and that I'm sure he would and does deviate from it if/when neccessary.

That's just what I think.

 

[dbl]

Sure I agree the list is okay and that there are exceptions here and there for some students. Otoh, you called some things off this list crap.

Since Brian has said there are big teachers teaching things off the list, I'd kind of like to see who outside of the tgm world are teaching crapola. Dalton McRary, Hardy, McLean, Rick Smith??? I mean this can be done in a non-bashing way: here's so and so, and his preferred pattern or method is xyz.

 

[birdie_man]

Sure I agree the list is okay and that there are exceptions here and there for some students. Otoh, you called some things off this list crap.

You mean this?:

"And even I know....that if anyone doesn't at least accept ALL of what you have up there...they don't know....

...crap."

...

I stand by what I said more-or-less. (! ) I don't like hard-assed statements normally....but I think that's more or less fair.

Note that I said "at least accept".....I shoulda stressed that more.

-Paul

 

[EdZ]

The fact is that THE GOLFING MACHINE does not have an official swing and thankfully it isn't the one I have been fixing.

"Except on the basis of mechanical advantage"


And to your list - I would add BALANCE.

A stable center of balance.

 

[oztrainee]

Balance and force

"Except on the basis of mechanical advantage"


And to your list - I would add BALANCE.

A stable center of balance.

Direction of the force (Up and in - down and out) affect our overall balance, and the balance determine our shape.

 

[rundmc]

Sure I agree the list is okay and that there are exceptions here and there for some students. Otoh, you called some things off this list crap.

Since Brian has said there are big teachers teaching things off the list, I'd kind of like to see who outside of the tgm world are teaching crapola. Dalton McRary, Hardy, McLean, Rick Smith??? I mean this can be done in a non-bashing way: here's so and so, and his preferred pattern or method is xyz.

Yo hold up wait a minute . . . Dalton is GSEB. You 'bout to get the 40 inches of squareness slapped about your grill. You better go check the TGM site . . .I think he's listed in Nevada. Close to gettin' your feelin's hurt.

He can teach you to hit it straight as you can point . . . sober too.

Don't be a hater because of the fly threads and pimped out doo.

Dalton WILL check your ass. And you better spell his name right. Or the 40 inches will be slappin the taste out of your mouth.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Can't fault ole Dalton.

He had one of the BEST quotes in the HISTORY of Golf Instruction.

(Talking about the Gary Wiren written PGA Teaching manual) "There isn't ANYTHING I teach in that book."

 

[birdie_man]

Yo hold up wait a minute . . . Dalton is GSEB. You 'bout to get the 40 inches of squareness slapped about your grill. You better go check the TGM site . . .I think he's listed in Nevada. Close to gettin' your feelin's hurt.

He can teach you to hit it straight as you can point . . . sober too.

Don't be a hater because of the fly threads and pimped out doo.

Dalton WILL check your ass. And you better spell his name right. Or the 40 inches will be slappin the taste out of your mouth.

Wait....that's not Norris?

 

[rundmc]

He had one of the BEST quotes in the HISTORY of Golf Instruction.

(Talking about the Gary Wiren written PGA Teaching manual) "There isn't ANYTHING I teach in that book."

I get a kick out of that dude. Is he for real? And is that a divot on his head?