What's this mean -swing away from ball?

[JRJ]

Maybe I'm slow but could someone translate this tip or rephrase it...I don't understand the advice:

"Let me introduce the concept that from the top of the swing the clubhead doesn't swing directly down to the ball but moves in the opposite direction -- away from the ball. This away-not-down concept is not only one of the most counterintuitive moves in the swing but also one of the most crucial. Who would have thought that you start the downswing by swinging in the opposite direction from where you want to go?

All good players do the "away" part first from the top of the swing while almost all bad players do the "down" first. The former produces a shallow, indirect route to the ball while the latter produces a steep, direct route.

So you don't swing up on the ball and you don't swing down on it - you swing "away from it."

Here's an "away" drill:
Using just one-third power actually let the club fly out of your hand when your left arm is halfway way down so that if you were aiming east, the club would fly west until it hits the ground. Over-the-toppers such as yourself fly the club south toward the target line.

 

[pm4610]

If it's any consolation, I don't understand it either. First of all, are we sure it's true/correct information? It doesn't "sound" like Brian.

 

[fronesis]

It doesn't sound like Brian to me either. Indeed, I'm almost certain that this is not Brian - Brian doesn't make up concepts that are confusing!

I think I get what this person is trying to explain, but I don't know that it's expressed all that clearly here. I would also worry that 'swinging away from the ball' would lead to casting.

Does this idea of 'swinging away' actually tell us anything more or better than the idea of axis tilt or the idea of a shift to the elbow plane already explain quite well?

At any rate, it seems to me that most folks around here agree that better players do not start their downswing with their hands. Moving the right shoulder down plane and beginning to straighten the right arm both allow the clubhead to move 'away' from the target, I suppose - but I just don't know if that's a helpful way of explaining things.

 

[puttmad]

i think the whole point of the above is to maintain extension..
You can get a good feeling of what he is trying to explain by making the first move of the downswing an extension of both arms to your right as far as they will go...
Its a strange feeling and not one to add to your swing (it tends to leave you stuck on your right foot...)...but usesful for realizing how wide your swing arc should be....

 

[golfer24]

Crap advice in my opinion.

 

[curtisj76]

I think it means to swing "out" and not at the ball, which is steering and I would think causes an over the top swing. Down, OUT, and forward.

 

[Tball88]

See Tom Tomasello:

He pushes this theory in what he defines as "right arm swinging". If you're right handed you take the club away by folding the right arm and bending back the right wrist. In the downswing you would throw your hands towards a spot/target to your right, maybe 2-3 feet behind the actual ball. What will happen is your hands come down on plan and pull the body through to the proper finish.

If done correctly you can hit a ball very solid using this method.

 

[JRJ]

I never said it was Brian. It came from a top 100 teacher. I found it really poorly written and hard to figure out so I was hoping Brian or somebody here on the forum could simplify it for me. I usually understand what somebody is trying to communicate even if I don't have the talent to make it happen in my own swing, but this is one tip that made no sense at all. I guess puttmad has it right...it's talking about extension.

 

[Tball88]

JRJ, if you look up Tom Tomasello you may be able to find some video's of him explaining the theory. He states that you "throw the club down and out on the plane line, not at the ball" very similar to swing the club to the west when you want it to go east.

 

[curtisj76]

I was thinking Tomasello as well. He used to talk about swinging to first base. I tell you what, I hit my best ever 4 iron and gap wedge using that "method" on the range earlier this year. But for some reason I was shanking it like crazy so I gave up on it. He says it's impossible to flip it if you throw it like that. All I know is that when it worked it worked GREAT.

 

[puttmad]

I've tried many variations of the above in the past, including "pull the bell rope" etc.....they all depend on one thing to make them work correctly, PIVOT!....if you don't pivot correctly you get very stuck behind and on your right foot, bigtime... (also I must admit, I don't like the feeling of having my mind so far "back" during the downswing)...

 

[JRJ]

Thanks Tball, I've reviewed TT's info and he does talk about pulling down with the arms and the left hip will respond. Down + Out = Forward. I just have to allow myself to do it....that is the key.

 

[mandrin]

Maybe I'm slow but could someone translate this tip or rephrase it...I don't understand the advice:

"Let me introduce the concept that from the top of the swing the clubhead doesn't swing directly down to the ball but moves in the opposite direction -- away from the ball. This away-not-down concept is not only one of the most counterintuitive moves in the swing but also one of the most crucial. Who would have thought that you start the downswing by swinging in the opposite direction from where you want to go?

All good players do the "away" part first from the top of the swing while almost all bad players do the "down" first. The former produces a shallow, indirect route to the ball while the latter produces a steep, direct route.

So you don't swing up on the ball and you don't swing down on it - you swing "away from it."

Here's an "away" drill:
Using just one-third power actually let the club fly out of your hand when your left arm is halfway way down so that if you were aiming east, the club would fly west until it hits the ground. Over-the-toppers such as yourself fly the club south toward the target line.

JRJ,
The down swing is approximately circular, therefore the first motion, by definition, is away from the target, hence ‘away from the ball’. This is an area heavily loaded with what actually happens and what we really feel we are doing. I have seen it mentioned several times but one source is an interesting golf instruction book – ‘Such a Little Secret’:

“How far should the hands continue in the direction indicated by the grip? The answer is roughly the same distance that the right elbow is away from the side when at the top. Usually just two to three inches. ...............”

 

[LiftOff]

“How far should the hands continue in the direction indicated by the grip? The answer is roughly the same distance that the right elbow is away from the side when at the top. Usually just two to three inches. ...............”[/QUOTE]

Mandrin: Can you explain the quote above please.

 

[mandrin]

“How far should the hands continue in the direction indicated by the grip? The answer is roughly the same distance that the right elbow is away from the side when at the top. Usually just two to three inches. ...............”

Mandrin: Can you explain the quote above please.

LiftOff,

At the top of the swing with the shaft approximately horizontal, the grip points away from the target.

Assuming the downswing roughly circular implies that the grip end initially has to move away from the target.

It is, feel wise, subtle, and one has to really concentrate initially to acquire the reflex to start away from the target.

It is basically vividly imagining the trajectory of the circular trajectory in space and pushing the hands along it from the top.

Some instructors go only halfway by teaching to move the hands vertically down towards the trail heel.

 

[PChandler]

Thanks For The Post

Mandrin

I wish all of your posts/responses were this clear. I think this might the only post of yours that I understood correctly, in its entirety. Thanks.

PChandler

 

[HowardK]

MY THOUGHT

DISCLAIMER: I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE

Tom tomasello i believe said swing towards the second baseman...

if you do and pivot at the same time......the ball will go towards the pitcher.

aim at the pitcher?? pivot. and the ball goes to third base...

PLEASE READ DISCLAIMER AGAIN

HJACK

PS......PLEASE LET ME ADD THIS.......BRIAN spoke at length in last nights show......about this subject....if you didnt attend get the download........he makes things very simple

thanks

hj

 

[LiftOff]

“How far should the hands continue in the direction indicated by the grip? The answer is roughly the same distance that the right elbow is away from the side when at the top. Usually just two to three inches. ...............”

Mandrin: Thanks for the explanation. In the quote it refers to the right elbow. Is it a factor or just an approximation? In other words, will manipulating the elbow have an effect on the distance the end travels in the opposite direction?

Thanks for your response.

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin
I wish all of your posts/responses were this clear. I think this might the only post of yours that I understood correctly, in its entirety. Thanks.
PChandler

PChandler,

Thanks for the kind compliment. There is always room for improvement. However there is not much incentive there being usually very little interest in anything else than quick advice and tips.

 

[mandrin]

Mandrin: Thanks for the explanation. In the quote it refers to the right elbow. Is it a factor or just an approximation? In other words, will manipulating the elbow have an effect on the distance the end travels in the opposite direction?

Thanks for your response.

LiftOff,

Don’t read anything important into the mentioning of the trail elbow other than it being an indication of how far the hands/club get in the back/upswing. With the shaft gettting to parallel there will be a bit more ‘away’ motion than for a 3/4 swing.

The advantage the away/down motion from the top, when done with quite shoulders, in addition to a bit more clubhead speed, is mainly getting the club on a more inward path, onto a flatter plane, hence reducing the very common out-to-in swing pattern.