When does the flat left wrist stop being flat? (with Manzella Video Answer & BLOG)

[biggolfvt]

When does the flat left wrist stop being flat? (with Manzella Video Answer & BLOG)

When does the flat left wrist in conjuction with the bent right wrist stop being flat? Thanks

 

[Brian Manzella]

When does the flat left wrist in conjuction with the bent right wrist stop being flat? Thanks

Anywhere you please....the ball will NEVER EVER EVER know.

 

[ej20]

The left wrist should be flat till just after P4 or club parallel to ground in the followthrough.

The right wrist flattens soon after impact,a lot sooner than the left wrist bends.This TGM poppycock of keeping a bent right wrist till the end of the swing doesn't happen in great players.I have no idea what "science" or "geometry" Homer used to come up with this.

 

[ej20]

It's true like Brian says,the ball doesn't know but it's just good technique.It's what most of the best players in the world do.

Here is a slow motion close up of Mickelson.Fast forward to 3:25 and see how flat his left wrist is well into the follow through.

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[Brian Manzella]

It's true like Brian says,the ball doesn't know but it's just good technique.It's what most of the best players in the world do.

Really?

YOU are going to lecture ME on the friggin' flat left wrist!!!

I can keep mine flatter than anyone alive, it has NOTHING to do with impact.

You show me ONE PGA Tour Player with a long after impact flat left wrist, and I'll show you 3 that don't do it.

Or, we could just waste our time talking about the weather....

 

[ej20]

Brian,where do you consider long after?

I can name Mickelson,Woods and Singh who keep their left wrist flat to just before club parallel to ground in the follow through.That's 21 majors worth.

I'm not saying you can't play good golf with a left wrist that bends immediately after impact.There are probably thousands of scratch players who do it.It's just probably not the best way.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I think most top players have theirs bent well before first parallel in the troughswing. Just my two cents. Only weak left hands and alot of roll have it flat much longer than that.

 

[ej20]

I think most top players have theirs bent well before first parallel in the troughswing. Just my two cents. Only weak left hands and alot of roll have it flat much longer than that.

I will concede this,however what is considered a weak left hand in current teaching was probably neutral in the old days.A slightly strong grip is common these days and that is now considered neutral.It's hard to down arch and roll without hooking using a strong grip.This movement is crucial if you want to be a HOF player in my opinion.It's the key to that "sweet feeling" at impact like Hogan described.He called it supinating.

 

[jenhaoyen]

Really?

YOU are going to lecture ME on the friggin' flat left wrist!!!

I can keep mine flatter than anyone alive, it has NOTHING to do with impact.

You show me ONE PGA Tour Player with a long after impact flat left wrist, and I'll show you 3 that don't do it.

Or, we could just waste our time talking about the weather....

we should talk about chemtrails

 

[Ringer]

Contrails have been a "thing" since Art Bell was around.

FWIW, my left wrist is flat during my entire golf swing. It's just the way I roll my arms.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I will concede this,however what is considered a weak left hand in current teaching was probably neutral in the old days.A slightly strong grip is common these days and that is now considered neutral.It's hard to down arch and roll without hooking using a strong grip.This movement is crucial if you want to be a HOF player in my opinion.It's the key to that "sweet feeling" at impact like Hogan described.He called it supinating.

Hmmm, i hear ya. But you can easily turn the sweetspot on top of the ball with the right hand and have the left wrist be anyway you want it. Snead didnt have that "look". O'Hair supposedly has that sound without the Hogan look, same with Watson.

 

[birly-shirly]

I'm not sure that this isn't a zero-sum game.

AFAIK - the flat left wrist "justification" is to try and ensure a downward attack on the ball, and to avoid flipping the clubface closed through impact.

That video of phil certainly showed a FLW (L for lead!) further into the follow through than I expected, but then it looks as though he only manages to do this via a very pronounced rolling of his lead arm.

So, is phil's clubface rate of closure any less than someone whose wrist bends that much earlier?

Phil's a great player, don't get me wrong, but if he's your model for a FLW into the follow-through, he's not exactly Iron Byron.

 

[mb6606]

Current #1 doesn't keep it flat for long.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CFALtG9Ld4&feature=related[/media]

 

[ej20]

I'm not sure that this isn't a zero-sum game.

AFAIK - the flat left wrist "justification" is to try and ensure a downward attack on the ball, and to avoid flipping the clubface closed through impact.

That video of phil certainly showed a FLW (L for lead!) further into the follow through than I expected, but then it looks as though he only manages to do this via a very pronounced rolling of his lead arm.

So, is phil's clubface rate of closure any less than someone whose wrist bends that much earlier?

Phil's a great player, don't get me wrong, but if he's your model for a FLW into the follow-through, he's not exactly Iron Byron.

Phil's not Iron Byron.He's an artist like most great players.He likes to work the ball,not hit every shot the same.Tiger keeps his left wrist flat as long as Mickelson.They both share a neutral/weak left hand grip.

I'm pretty sure Hogan kept his left wrist flat to at least first parallel in the follow through.Will post a vid when I find it.Would he suffice being the model for Iron Byron?

 

[ej20]

Current #1 doesn't keep it flat for long.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CFALtG9Ld4&feature=related[/media]

I raise you Tiger Woods to your Lee Westwood.Forteen Majors to zip.

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Left wrist breaking down through impact is not an imperative but it's not what the HOF players do.

 

[birly-shirly]

EJ - to be honest, I think I'm seeing some slight bend in Tiger's wrist by the time the shaft hits the bottom right hand corner of the screen. I'd sure hesitate to call it "breaking down through impact" - but I'm not sure where you would draw the line between "breaking down through impact" and the phlatness of phil.

All of which is, I think, beside the point. All I was saying is that I don't immediately see what advantage Phil's FLW gives him if its the result of a rapid forearm rotation. For me, the more interesting question would be the relative rates of face rotation through the ball for, say, Phil, Woods (if he's one of your exemplars), Westwood, Montgomerie or Greg Norman.

 

[ej20]

Birly,I think it's an anti-flip move.Once you stop rolling you start flipping.

I think Tigers left wrist is pretty flat where you say it is a little bent.I can argue that Phil is actually a little arched so Tiger just looks bent in comparison.

Does rate of closure make any difference?The face closes just 0.5 degrees during the impact interval.Flippers or reverse rollers are more likely to leave the face open.Hall of fame players who roll are more likely to have the face shut thus the need for them to have a neutral to weak left hand.That would be the only difference in my opinion.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Let it play out a little more. I think the 60s and 70s HOFers were heavily influenced by Hogan and supination. Does anybody have post impact photos pre 1955? Would be interesting to see. Most modern players have bend in the left wrist since the game is more about power. Force Across the Shaft overtaking a freewheeling left wrist and spaghetti noodle shaft at impact.

 

[ej20]

This is not a typical Hogan shot.He was obviously working the ball punching one down low but it's a good example of a hof fame player delofting the clubface,keeping the left wrist not just flat but arched post impact.

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[Jared Willerson]

I think some golfers, who are told not to flip it get too caught up in the whole flat left wrist idea. I know I did, I wouldn't let that wrist bend for nothing and I kept the right wrist as bent as I could. What I ended up with was a slow speed dive at the ball with a right shoulder that flew out and down....but I kept that right wrist bent and left wrist flat!

I struggled with pulls and blocks, still do a little in fact because I strove so hard to keep this alignment too long.

Learning to "swing" and let the clubhead feel like it overtakes my hands has done wonders for my distance and direction.