Why does a pull shot go longer?

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hue

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I have been making changes to my pivot after readings Brian's articles . When my rhythm gets quick at transition I hit a bit of a pull. The shot has a nice strong trajectory and goes quite a bit longer than my straight shot. In Brady's write up on Goosen he says both he and Sam Snead play/played an intentional pull shot aiming their feet right of the target and pulling the shot.

http://www.golftipscc.com/profiles/profiles09_03/index.html

Brady and Brian : Do you ever teach players to pull the ball? If it hits the ball longer why is the pull shot not taught? Why does a pulled shot go longer? Thanks.
 
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efnef

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I believe a pull shot is the result of an outside to in swingpath, with the clubhead making square contact with the ball, instead of the more common glancing blow that produces a slice. Naturally, square contact will produce a longer shot, just as in baseball, where a dead pull hitter usually hits rockets. When your rhythm gets fast you might be coming around fast enough with your right shoulder to get off plane but still hit the ball squarely or with a slight draw spin (another reason pulls go farther). I can set up to the left and reproduce this at will (ball placement determines whether you set up right or left to hit an intentional pull) and get another 20 - 30 yds with a pull, but it is also too easy to overcook and be fore left. It also messes my normal swing from a normal stance, which is why I avoid doing it now (in my old slicer days, this was the only way I knew how to go left).
 
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hue

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quote:Originally posted by efnef

I believe a pull shot is the result of an outside to in swingpath, with the clubhead making square contact with the ball, instead of the more common glancing blow that produces a slice. Naturally, square contact will produce a longer shot, just as in baseball, where a dead pull hitter usually hits rockets. When your rhythm gets fast you might be coming around fast enough with your right shoulder to get off plane but still hit the ball squarely or with a slight draw spin (another reason pulls go farther).
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Your description of the trail shoulder move is what I feel may be going on when I hit a pull. Also my pull shot has a slight draw. It is not really bad say 10 to 16ft left with an 8 iron.
 
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EaglesNest

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Is the feet and body aiming right and the resultant pull shot symptoms of a failure to swing to the correct aiming point ? A mate of mine has noticed in my swing that when I'm swinging well my body alignments are correct, when not swinging well, I'm aiming well right of my target and pulling around on the shot and my thoughts have been somewhere other than the inside back of the ball.
 
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Brian Manzella

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A pull goes farther for two reasons:

1. Easier to compress the ball from above the plane to below.

2. Easier to stop the left hip and get the 'hit the dashboard with no seatbelt on' extra arms/hands and club speed.
 
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CrimsonTider

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I thought the pull was sometimes the result of hooding/delofting the clubhead thus turning, for example, an 8-iron into a 7- or 6-iron.
 
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hue

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quote:Originally posted by EaglesNest

Is the feet and body aiming right and the resultant pull shot symptoms of a failure to swing to the correct aiming point ? A mate of mine has noticed in my swing that when I'm swinging well my body alignments are correct, when not swinging well, I'm aiming well right of my target and pulling around on the shot and my thoughts have been somewhere other than the inside back of the ball.
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EaglesNest: I played yesterday and was either hitting pull shots or straight ones. The pulls were not bad enough to get me into trouble but the shot pattern is not something I am used to. I went to the range after and a friend was watching my swing and he pointed out that my shoulders were quite closed. So this may have something to do with it.

Brian: He also said my lead shoulder was very high trail shoulder low at impact and that my rear hip was in front of the ball at impact with the lead leg straightening which gave a tilt to the hips.
 
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hue

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

. Easier to stop the left hip and get the 'hit the dashboard with no seatbelt on' extra arms/hands and club speed.
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This description describes what it feels like to me. Is this something you like to see in a normal swing? Thanks.
 
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EaglesNest

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quote:EaglesNest: I played yesterday and was either hitting pull shots or straight ones. The pulls were not bad enough to get me into trouble but the shot pattern is not something I am used to. I went to the range after and a friend was watching my swing and he pointed out that my shoulders were quite closed. So this may have something to do with it.
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Hue,
I find if my mind is anywhere but at the aiming point during my preshot routine and setup I tend to end up aiming right and having a tug to the left, the more thought I give to the target during my preshot routine the more right I want to aim. Anyone else have this problem ?
 
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ej20

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No doubt the pull is the longest of all shots.I hit my longest drives when i inadvertantly pull one on the range.Unfortunately on the course,my pulls end up in trouble cos i'm not setting up for one.

One of my playing partners play for a BIG pull and when he nails one,he hits it about 280/290 yards...and his swing speed is only about 100 mph.The ball just rolls forever.The downside is less control and harder to stick greens with irons.

I think Jesper Parnevick plays a pull and he compensates by having weak lofts on all his clubs due to the low trajectory.
 
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EdZ

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Hue - this is the move Tiger talks about - posting up on the left leg in synch with the extention of the right arm.

Martin Hall calls this the 'power punch'

Hit the dashboard with no belt on.... a bit morbid, but I suppose that gets the point across... it isn't just that the hip stops and the club keeps going, it is more that the hips stop, and the angular momentum is released from the levers because of it - that is why it it makes the club move FASTER than someone just going through a windshield - they would still be moving at the rate the car had been moving

in the case of the swing, the release of the angles makes the club move faster than the 'car was moving'

If power is your goal, than yes, you want to feel this 'post up' move, but you don't 'need' it, in a great swing (Brady's +2 student is a good example - great swing, but no real 'post up' move)

Hogan's hip motion was all about that post up move IMO
 
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6bee1dee

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Funny, I remember Butchie showing the power punch of the left hip and straight leg on Acadamy Live once. He said it was what Bobby Jones did when he swung. It is also something that other great golfers DIDN'T do, like Snead and Nelson. So many "instructors" wanted Tiger to stop doing it, maybe just to get their guy to win, LOL.

I like the power post myself but why not, I'm from that Charlie Lau batting school. :D
 
bts

bts

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In a pull shot, the clubface is square to the target line at initial contact of the ball and closed at separation. Compared to a straight shot, the loft is decreased during impact.

At a given closing rate of the clubface (horizontal or angled hinge), the less clubface loft leads to a more symmetric (squared) deformation (less "leakage" or discrepancy between the clubface alignment and the clubhead path) vertical-wise during impact, which gives a lower but stronger bounce and less backspin.
 
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efnef

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

A pull goes farther for two reasons:

1. Easier to compress the ball from above the plane to below.

2. Easier to stop the left hip and get the 'hit the dashboard with no seatbelt on' extra arms/hands and club speed.
Click to expand...

Of all of the posts here (including my own meager attempt), this is the most concise, easy to visualize, and humerous. :)
 
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hue

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jim0068: Thanks but I don't have a RP. I think I am a single shift swinger and can get very fast with my pivot when under pressure and this may be the cause. I think I may need some one to one help soon as I am reaching as far as I can go by my self. I am thinking that maybe I should be a double shift swinger and that my downswing needs shallowing out. I am getting into territory that I don't fully understand . I am also toying with the idea of doing an Axel Wingert and setting something up with Brian. I am looking into how to set up video conferencing first to get something going before going for a Brian Blitz on my swing.
 
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