Why does backing up the shaft feel powerful?

[noobie]

I've traditionally had a poor hand path that goes towards the ball in my initial downswing move coupled with a steep shaft which points at the ball or just inside. In order to compensate, my hands move towards my body just before impact giving me a CP style release (and swinging left). To me, this move feels powerful and I mostly hit draws or hooks that start right of the target.

Why is it that whenever I try to lay the shaft off in my initial downswing move and have a more vertical hand path, I feel less powerful. By the time, the shaft is parallel to th ground in the downswing, I feel like I don't have any power (my right elbow feels stuck) and have to use my pivot to hit the ball instead having a free arm swing. Would the thought of swinging more right help someone like me? Add more tumble?

 

[Erik_K]

I've always felt that the most powerful move involves the shaft coming down on a overly steep path. Get the shoulders involved and rush the downswing - sort of an axe chomping move down to the ball.

However, the correct golf swing probably feels very un-natural to the novice, or the player transitioning from a high-handicap move to one where the path is more shallow. Indeed it probably feels like you are holding, or hanging, back but only until you've mastered the sequencing that leads to a better swing.

 

[magicmarker]

You might be mistaking the feeling of acceleration for actual speed.

 

[noobie]

You might be mistaking the feeling of acceleration for actual speed.

What exactly do you mean since club should accelerate even when the shaft is not backing up? If you're implying that I'm feeling change of direction applied to the shaft, I'd guess that effect to be minimal. In any case, I've hit many balls on a launch monitor so I know I'm getting higher ball speeds with the shaft backing up swing.

 

[spktho]

I get exactly what you are saying. I have not been able to consistently get more swing speed with a "more correct" swing, yet. I do occasionally get it all together and hit some really good shots with a club or more increase in distance.

I think the hands going more vertical is a good start, but don't get them going vertical too soon. If they go vertical too soon, the shaft steepens too soon. I feel like I have to hold back on really swinging the club because I get too steep too soon, resulting in backing the shaft up. I think allowing the club to lay off with a little out hands to start is ok, so that the hands can then work in and help tumble(steepen) the club a lot later than what feels "normal". If you can get that down, then you don't have to hold back in fear of getting too steep because the club will be steepening all the way into impact, which is where the speed is, I think. Hope that makes sense. Tough for me to do after swinging so steep from the start of the downswing for so long, but I'm getting there.

 

[noobie]

I get exactly what you are saying. I have not been able to consistently get more swing speed with a "more correct" swing, yet. I do occasionally get it all together and hit some really good shots with a club or more increase in distance.

I think the hands going more vertical is a good start, but don't get them going vertical too soon. If they go vertical too soon, the shaft steepens too soon. I feel like I have to hold back on really swinging the club because I get too steep too soon, resulting in backing the shaft up. I think allowing the club to lay off with a little out hands to start is ok, so that the hands can then work in and help tumble(steepen) the club a lot later than what feels "normal". If you can get that down, then you don't have to hold back in fear of getting too steep because the club will be steepening all the way into impact, which is where the speed is, I think. Hope that makes sense. Tough for me to do after swinging so steep from the start of the downswing for so long, but I'm getting there.

Thanks that does make sense. Have you experimented with delaying your axis tilt? It seems like that would delay tumbling and add some speed.

 

[spktho]

Thanks that does make sense. Have you experimented with delaying your axis tilt? It seems like that would delay tumbling and add some speed.

I've messed around a bit with it, but it seemed too inconsistent for me to coordinate (time). Instead I have worked on getting the left hip back (I already get it forward enough) during transition which helps lay the club down and helps with clearing room for the hands to work in later in the downswing. It seems when doing this, the axis tilt occurs automatically.

Michael Jacobs has said a lot that getting the backswing and transition positions correct and in correct coordination (sequencing) makes a good downswing much easier, and I have found that to be true with my swing.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

My opinion it's a feeling of doing something versus waiting for something..."to happen."

 

[Jared Willerson]

More torque in the hands.

 

[noobie]

Could a pivot stall (not sure I am using the term correctly) also lead to backing up the shaft as well? I've noticed that when my right elbow feels stuck (when the shaft is parallel to the ground b4 impact), I have a tendency to throw my hands out which can also lead to all sorts of issues as I try to save my swing my pulling my hands back (towards me).

If I keep my pelvis rotating then it would seem that my right elbow can't get stuck.

 

[magicmarker]

I meant (maybe) you're able to feel your extra effort translated into increasing speed more proportionately.

 

[spktho]

My opinion it's a feeling of doing something versus waiting for something..."to happen."

It feels opposite for me. Pulling hard from the top and getting steep feels like doing something to me and hitting a big pull flush feels super powerful while doing this.

Laying off through transition and into the early downswing feels like waiting for something to happen, but then I can pour on the effort from about 1/4 way down to about halfway down with less fear of a big pull.

Could a pivot stall (not sure I am using the term correctly) also lead to backing up the shaft as well? I've noticed that when my right elbow feels stuck (when the shaft is parallel to the ground b4 impact), I have a tendency to throw my hands out which can also lead to all sorts of issues as I try to save my swing my pulling my hands back (towards me).

If I keep my pelvis rotating then it would seem that my right elbow can't get stuck.

What has helped me is to get the left hip out of the way (behind and left) as part of the transition, which gets the pelvis more open earlier in the downswing for me. But, again it has to be set up correctly with the backswing.

 

[noobie]

Curious if anyone has a thought on this. If my ballflight is a draw or hook that starts right of my target, is it likely that I am handle dragging as well to keep the clubface open and flip at impact? I typically have some shaft lean at impact.

 

[Matt Bryda]

noobie,
There is a good chance that if you are over hooking/drawing that you may be pulling for too long into impact. Good golf does not resemble a tug of war contest.

I know this from my own experience.

 

[noobie]

Thanks for the tip Matt. Great analogy that hits home.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

It feels opposite for me. Pulling hard from the top and getting steep feels like doing something to me and hitting a big pull flush feels super powerful while doing this.

Laying off through transition and into the early downswing feels like waiting for something to happen, but then I can pour on the effort from about 1/4 way down to about halfway down with less fear of a big pull.

You are describing what i meant not opposite...i was just trying to be brief.

 

[spktho]

Ahhh. Now I get what you meant, Jim.