Working the ball

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Lifter

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I noticed this comment on Richie3Jack's blog:

Richie3Jack Golf Blog: The Joy of D-Plane, The Duck Hook...

Jack Nicklaus prescribed if you want to hit a draw, have the face closed at address and take your normal stance and swing. If you want to hit a fade, open the face at address and take your normal swing.

This, if done exactly as prescribed, will get the golfer to hit a draw or a fade. So there is some truth to it.​

If I want to hit a draw on a sharp dogleg left or a fade on a sharp dogleg right, is this the most reliable way to do it? Or is there some other way that's even more reliable?
 
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softconsult

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I think Jack actually said to aim the clubface at the target, then take a stance aimed right of the target for draw, or left for a fade. Sure that works. That presumed that the path had more influence than the face. D-Plane proves that the face has more influence than the path.

At least in my experience, having grown up that Jack's book, and after hitting a few trees during attempts at bending shots, you learn to adjust that technique.
 
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dbl

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As far as other techniques, there are lots. Adjust the hands (clubface) in the downswing, or adjust the path in the downswing. Or like in the other discussion change your backswing and then do not get back to the original plane.

I wouldn't even broach deliberately flipping....
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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Lifter said:
If I want to hit a draw on a sharp dogleg left or a fade on a sharp dogleg right, is this the most reliable way to do it? Or is there some other way that's even more reliable?
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Lord no.

I think it beats 'turning over the clubhead' or 'holding off', but if you understand D-Plane you should understand that there's no reason to work the ball like that.

Here's the big thing. Usually when I explain D-Plane I will get a doubter saying 'WELL FALDO SAYS THE BALL STARTS OFF WHERE YOUR PATH IS AND HE WON THE BRITISH OPEN DOING THAT AND YOU'RE JUST SOME DUMB JAMOKE! R U CALLING FALDO A LIAR?!?!'

Some of these people really need to go to a PGA Tour event and count the number of golfers that truly the work the ball all over the course. You may be lucky to see 5 of them that do that (outside of hitting a punch shot out of the trees).

The truth is that most PGA Tour players hit it with very little bend to it at all and just keep playing that shot. And the guys with a lot of bend to it, like a Rocco Mediate, they KEEP PLAYING THEIR SHOT. Re-watch the US Open and Torrey Pines against Tiger. Rocco had plenty of times where the hole really calls for a fade, but he just played his big draw. For him and most guys like him, they don't feel comfortable enough trying to hit that fade and probably feel they have just as good of a chance hitting the fairway with the draw than trying to manipulate a cut. It's almost like the power hitter in baseball who continues to try and hit his pull even though the defense has shifted over there. It's what they do best, so they stick with it.

So when I hear a PGA Tour pro talking about how to work the ball using the old ball flight laws, it falls flat on me because if anything...that PGA Tour pro likely almost never works the ball on the course.





3JACK
 
Jwat

Jwat

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Richie3Jack said:
Tiger works a lot as well. Other than that, maybe a handful of guys will work it a lot, the rest will stick to what they feel comfortable hitting.3JACK
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I think the tour pros are working the ball alot more than what you are giving them credit for. We have to consider how much they flight the ball as well. They may hit a cut all day but when they hit a low 3/4 shot they always hit draws. Kenny Perry still hits cuts with his driver and irons. I know a tour pro that almost exclusivly hits draws. He has won 3+ times on tour. The times he struggled was when he couldn't fade the ball at all. They have to be able to work it both ways to be successful.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

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Jwat said:
Kenny Perry still hits cuts with his driver and irons.
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Alright, i'm calling you out on that one haha, i need video evidence otherwise i won't believe it. OR i will believe if he ABSOLUTELY had too he would but wouldn't be comfortable doing it.
 
Jwat

Jwat

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Alright, i'm calling you out on that one haha, i need video evidence otherwise i won't believe it. OR i will believe if he ABSOLUTELY had too he would but wouldn't be comfortable doing it.
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You don't believe that Kenny Perry ever hits a cut? I understand what his shot pattern is and what plays 95% of the time, but I have seen him hit cuts alot on tv. They always comment on it when he does it. No he may not be comfortable hitting it, but he still does occasionally. And he is the most extreme case.

The original comment was MOST pros do NOT ever work the ball. And until I see evidence otherwise than my opinion stands that this is not correct.
 
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