Turned shoulder plane

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Brian Manzella

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Homer Kelley's Turned Shoulder Plane (Pics and audio)

[media]http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Music/tsp.mp3[/media]

homersTSP.jpg
 
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golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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Thanks for your audio thoughts, Brian.

2 questions please.

1. Do you think that a rotated shoulder turn locates the same plane angle as the flat shoulder turn - ie, would you have identical yellow lines in your graphics? Or does the flat shoulder turn locate the turned right shoulder at a lower position and hence flatter plane.

I understand that a rotated shoulder turn gives "a" TSP... but is it "the same" TSP as a flat turn would produce?

2. You mentioned in another thread that there are a subgroup of swingers who have right elbow in a more flying elbow position ... ie. more like a hitters ideal variation ...90 degrees to the primary lever... etc per 7-3 stuff.

do you think that the type of shoulder turn influences this. Rotated shoulder turn tends towards more flying elbow ... just wondering ....

Thanks - your graphics stuff is great ! Loved that montage of 13 FLW and 1 FRW you did too!
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Answers....

golfbulldog said:
1. Do you think that a rotated shoulder turn locates the same plane angle as the flat shoulder turn - ie, would you have identical yellow lines in your graphics? Or does the flat shoulder turn locate the turned right shoulder at a lower position and hence flatter plane.

I understand that a rotated shoulder turn gives "a" TSP... but is it "the same" TSP as a flat turn would produce?
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, what KIND of Shoulder Turn you make has NOTHING to so with this plane. This plane is ALL ABOUT THE DOWNSWING.

So wherever your right shoulder IS at the top, you draw that line to the ball and that IS the TSP, because to utilize the right shoulder and hands consistant with the TSP concept, that's all you need.

2. You mentioned in another thread that there are a subgroup of swingers who have right elbow in a more flying elbow position ... ie. more like a hitters ideal variation ...90 degrees to the primary lever... etc per 7-3 stuff.

do you think that the type of shoulder turn influences this. Rotated shoulder turn tends towards more flying elbow ... just wondering ....
Click to expand...

Not really.

It has to do with about 5 things off the top of my head, but none of those is how flat the turn was.
 
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bmctigue

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This is probably answered a bunch of times before in different places, but what is the best way to ensure that you end up with your hands on the TSP at the top? Some how I always find it possible to get too far below it on the backswing.
Thanks.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Great Question!

bmctigue said:
This is probably answered a bunch of times before in different places, but what is the best way to ensure that you end up with your hands on the TSP at the top? Some how I always find it possible to get too far below it on the backswing.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Most people who have trouble winding up on the TDSP at the top, have an ELBOW LOCATION problem.

The ELBOW is on a plane at address. It should not really come off of that plane very much.

I have a drill for that, I'll try to post a little video cip of it.
 
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bmctigue

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Brian,

Thanks for your quick response. Glad you liked the question. It's my swing nemesis.
So the elbow should stay on the elbow plane?
 
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bmctigue

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Brian,
Thanks!
Did you just record that after my question and post it or did you have it filed away somewhere? If the former I am impressed with your customer service! (I am anyway).

I'll try to attach a still of my top of the backswing position. Historically my hands don't go above my shoulder, more around my body and the butt of the club is pointing more the way I am facing. Ugly and ineffective! I don't know why I do that. Anyway, this should help, and I have also found that tracing the plane line going back helps keep me on plane better.

Thanks again. Great work!
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

New
thanks for reply!

Brian Manzella said:
Believe it or not, what KIND of Shoulder Turn you make has NOTHING to so with this plane. This plane is ALL ABOUT THE DOWNSWING.

So wherever your right shoulder IS at the top, you draw that line to the ball and that IS the TSP, because to utilize the right shoulder and hands consistant with the TSP concept, that's all you need.



Not really.

It has to do with about 5 things off the top of my head, but none of those is how flat the turn was.
Click to expand...

Direct access to your brain is a great research tool! Thanks.

About those 5 things... why does Tigers right elbow look different to Vijay at the top of their respective backswings ( as per your "this is what a FLW looks like" image. Is it just that Tiger goes to "top" and Vijay goes to "end"... surely it has to do with the loading action... maybe?
 
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bmctigue

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I would post a pic of the top of my backswing but 1) it would hurt you to see it and 2) my "posting rules" say I may not post attachments. Is that something I can change or do I have to have permission?

Thanks.
 
RicoSuave

RicoSuave

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bmctigue said:
................ 2) my "posting rules" say I may not post attachments. Is that something I can change or do I have to have permission?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
put your videofiles on a server (for example your own webspace) and make a link in your posts. (It would be heavy, if everybody is using Brians serverstructure ;) )
You can also use YouTube: (its for free)
http://www.youtube.com/t/howto_makevideo
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
When?

At the top—usually. But not all the time—then, mostly above. But not all the time. Sometimes lower.

On the way down—if that is the way you DRAW a straight plane line best, only.
 
curtisj76

curtisj76

New
Sorry, let me ask again. Are there times when this is not recommended to a certain type of player. Is there a different plane that fits a different type of player? Their build, the way they swing, etc.. Maybe I just don't understand the TSP....

Sorry if I'm making no sense. I just finished a college exam and am not all there mentally.


PS Just got that %^&$ yellow book out and it mentions elbow plane, tsp, and squared shoulder plane. Does each one of this fit a certain type of player? Or is one better than the other.

I think that makes sense doesn't it? Thanks again!
 
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tongzilla

tongzilla

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Brian Manzella said:
At the top—usually. But not all the time—then, mostly above. But not all the time. Sometimes lower.
Click to expand...
Brian, I would guess that golfers below the TSP at the top tend to have shorter strokes? Also, do you think it's easier to come into the ball from the inside if you're below the TSP?
 
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