Belly putters

[tourdeep]

OK So, Ernie Els says that belly (or long) putters should be banned. So does Adam Scott. But why?

Has there been a winner of a major using a belly putter? Is there a statistical advantage to using one? Does it really steady the club when the pressure is on? Is it just another golfer’s equipment change for the sake of change itself because the old way was simply not working? Is this the beginning of another era in equipment that is slowly finding its way into more bags of the touring pros like what we saw with persimmon to metal woods?, the size of the heads of putters?, Drivers morphing into mini VW’s?, golf ball?, Range finders?

Sergio Garcia was ranked toward the bottom of all the putters on the PGA tour. This year, however, he made a change to the belly putter and moved to 18th (I believe) in a statistical putting category, the specific category I am not certain. But what is certain is that his putting improved.

Earlier this year, I spoke with Ryan Moore’s father about Ryan’s injury and Ping equipment. Relative to this topic, Ryan fell in love with the Ping hybrids and planned to use them regularly on tour because of the ease of hitting it and getting them airborne. I know he aced one with a hybrid this year! Now, at one point were hybrids no longer considered a novelty? And should they be banned from the tour cuz they’re just easier to hit? Square grooves gone? What next?

Anyway, the best of the best use the standard putter,,,at least for now.

What say you?

 

[birdie_man]

Screw all these people man..........................I use a standard length putter but putting is hard enough for God's sake....esp. if you're not doing so well at it.

Let these guys use the alternative putters if it helps em.

 

[holeout]

Has there been a winner of a major using a belly putter?

This is the clinching arguement. Hey Ernie, if its so darned easy to use, why aren't you using one? And don't anyone try to convince me that its because of principle. I can guarantee you that if he putted better with one, he'd use it in a heartbeat.

 

[otto6457]

I don't think it matters

If the belly or the long putter were statistically better, every pro would convert. Putting at the top is so critical to a player's level of success that even a marginal statistical improvement could add hundreds of thousands of dollars to their bank account every season.

My personal opinion, which is worth exactly what anyone is willing to pay, is that belly and long putters help players that have lost confidence in their putting. It's much more mental than physical. The change to a long or belly putter is so drastic that the player has an entirely new approach to putting. This can allow a player get out of their own way and just roll the ball with a whole new outlook. Sometimes this new outlook brings the player back to putting like they used to. If you remember Sergio's past putting exploits, you probably remember when it looked like he was struggling to even pull the putter back. It was painful to watch his twitching and his stroke often looked like a spasm. Now with the belly, it looks like he has regained his confidence and he seems to be in a nice putting routine that repeats. But I'll bet if you compare his stats with the belly to his stats when he was younger and putting well, he is still not as good now as he was.

The highest rated player, that I recognize, that uses a longer than standard length putter is Tim Clark at #4, then Sergio at T11. The next one I am sure uses a longer putter is Vijay and his belly putter at T31. I know Calc (T20) used a belly putter a few times, but I think he uses a standard putter a lot more. After that the next one I know is Carl Pettersson at T41. So if the longer putters were resulting in tour leading putting stats there might be a reason for guys like Scott and Els to complain, but the facts don't support their theory.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/2007/104.html

Banning the belly and the long putters is a lot of noise about nothing.

Good putting has a lot more to it than just a good stroke, and the belly and long putters have their own problems. So in effect, a player trades one set of problems for another and it always comes down to talent and hard work. The same things that have always made great putters.

I tried a belly for several weeks and found it interesting but not overwhelming. I will admit that my tempo with my regular putter is better since I played with the belly. I found it very hard to rush the stroke with the belly and I have since tried to keep that tempo with my regular putter with some success. So, I found the belly a good training aid. But is was hardly a Holy Grail of putting art.

 

[bcoak]

It is funny watching the Fall Finish and see all the guys using Belly Putters, even B. Haas. I would like to know how many putted conventionally att the beginning of the year and switched. I don't think it matters, you still have to read it and stroke it/.

 

[fronesis]

My (limited) experience

I agree with what others have said: putting is largely mental for the best in the world and the belly putter could merely be a psychological bonus.

That said, I do think it brings in some different mechanics that could make an important difference in some people's games. I putted conventionally for 20+ years including 100s of rounds of competition. In the past month I switched to a (properly fitted - and this is KEY since no belly putter can fit 'off the rack') belly putter.

It has forced me to change my mechanics significantly. I putted from a very upright stance, kept the blade low back and through and did not open or shut the blade in my stroke (square to square). You can't do that with a belly putter. By fixing the top of the club in your belly, you have to make an open to closed stroke and you have to bring the putter head up in the air a bit.

For me, this is a BETTER stroke than I used to make, and I'm now holing a lot more putts over 10 feet. However, it's still hard to adjust to putting this way under pressure, since it's not natural at all. I do find that it's easier to focus on my mechanics rather than making the 'nervous stroke' that I had actually mastered over the years with my conventional putting stroke.

So again, I don't think there's a huge difference. However, if I could go back and learn the game from scratch, I'd learn with a belly putter. I think it makes it easier to teach certain fundamental mechanics of a good stroke.

 

[tourdeep]

While experimenting with the belly putter, like Otto, I too, find it to be a great training aid. My grip and stance with the belly putter has hands together and eyes over the ball. What I found difficult adjusting to was the longer putts. At first, the butt end of the putter separated from my belly. After getting it, distance control became an issue. This may be a result of focusing too much on mechanics instead of speed, especially with longer putts.

While flip-flopping between standard and belly, I found that I had gotten away from a shoulder stroke and was adding hands and/or more thrust. It felt strange at first, but the real deal feel came back with the "aha" moment with the standard immediately. Now, I don't know if it is correct to get the putter to go more up (and in), releasing?, but that feel gives me more confidence.

I've tried sticking with the belly putter to see if it does make a difference. I am a decent putter, get my share of the birds, but also succeptible to the dreaded three putt, or missed three footer. The belly putter feels near automatic with 3-4 footers, downhill sliders excepted. But so does the standard putter. But, the belly putter did point out a flaw that developed with the standard putter that is now fixed. I like the belly putter, a little to a lot heavier and feel is somewhat sacrificed, but my setup is more predictible. Jury is still deliberating...

The day (which will require the same day a snowball will not melt in hell) Tiger switches to a belly putter, sales will skyrocket,,,,....with the rule adjustment following close behind!

 

[Little Brit]

I have just turned one of my putters into a belly putter to give it a try. (I am so short I only needed a couple of inches bigger than reg.) My putting is pretty awful. The local pro at the course I play regularly says it looks like the yips. I totally mess up on the shorter putts and stress birdie putts. So far it looks like it will help. I am hopeful. It also seems to have helped and given me more confidence with my regular putter, using the same type of stroke. I will keep both in my bag for now and see how it goes. It is very early days yet. I may use the belly for the short putts and my 33 inch for longer putts.

 

[mgranato]

If I'm not mistaken, the argument AGAINST the belly is that it "fixes" the club to the body and takes much of the mechanical skill out of the stroke. In fact, some who are against the "anchored" stroke have used belly/long putters without fixing them to their bodies (I think Mark Lye was one).

I also don't think you can judge it's effectiveness by looking at the putting stats of the tour. It seems a more effective gauge would be to look at the guys who use belly/long putters and compare their stats to their use of the conventional putters. We don't compare the effectiveness of 7.5* drivers based on how many guys use one - everything is personalized to get a given player to improve in a given area, and no doubt, a belly has HELPED a lot of strokes (see Billy Mayfair).

 

[David Alford]

I invented Belly Putting. Or coinvented it, as I will acknowledge it may have been "discovered" multiple times over the last hundred yrs. Yes, I showed it to some pros a long time ago. The next year, I saw someone winning a tournament with it. Could have been coincidence, who knows.

I also wrote a book on putting but never published it. It's not a pamphlet, but a real book. This and the belly putting "discovery" was after an auto accident and I couldn't practice the full swing, so I put my mind to work on the problems of putting.

I won't go into all the advantages of belly putting, but I rank it equally with the "long putter" & in general, these are two great putting methods.

There is a third one I liked a lot, and that was the subject of the book, which may yet see some distribution. I've kept the lid on it, but recently I found out that someone else is seeking to capitalize on the same idea (which must have been independently developed).

My experience with "Belly Putting" is why I'm always a bit reserved on some topics such as Hogan's swing secrets.

 

[David Alford]

Incidentally, it will be hard to make illegal, because of all the graduations to a more free stroke, esp. given the physiques of many players today.

It looks nice as Sergio demonstrates (above). Why even consider making it illegal? It doesn't detract from the game, certainly it doesn't look like hockey or croquet or something wacky that detracts from golf.

Skill and feel are still involved. Nothing is 100% fool proof. But yes, it is one of the better methods out there.

 

[TYORKE1]

Give some tips David

 

[speedracer68]

This is the clinching arguement. Hey Ernie, if its so darned easy to use, why aren't you using one? And don't anyone try to convince me that its because of principle. I can guarantee you that if he putted better with one, he'd use it in a heartbeat.

Vijay won with a belly..i just don't remember which major....i could be wrong..

 

[Jared Willerson]

Vijay never won a major with a belly. In 2004 when he won 9 times he switched to a conventional putter just a few weeks before his PGA win.

 

[rwh]

You still have to make a good read, no matter what style of putter you're using.

I think one of the benefits of the belly is that it is hinged from one point on the body, which pretty much negates throwaway and gives a conisistent clubface loft through impact.

 

[tourdeep]

It's been over 10 rounds and more than several practice sessions at the range along with hours logged on the carpet at home with the belly putter. What I have noticed is my touch is not the same, at least not yet. I consistently leave the longer putts well too short and when I am cognizant of this while putting, I then bang it well beyond the hole. On shorter putts, nothing burns me more to come up short inside of 10 feet. I don't keep stats, but,,,you know...it seems this is happening more than b4.

Also, I've experimented with two types of swings which is explained below by a post I ran across from another site. Forgive me Brian if I am stepping on your line, but this nails it on what I am going thru with the two types of strokes.

maybe the putting weight is just too heavy for me and need to try a lighter belly putter.


Maybe my belly is getting bigger and messing with my lie angle.


I personally believe that the belly putter has a built-in flaw in that the stroke path is forced by the setup to swing to the "pull" direction thru impact. Sergio Garcia missed his crucial putts down the stretch to the inside. I teach a "corrective" technique of "shut-up" for the belly putter, which requires the golfer to shut the putter face back to square by the middle of the stroke, but then to putt up and down the line straight away sideways instead of on an arcing path to the inside thru impact. The belly putter is also slightly flawed because there are two different main ways to make the stroke -- 1) with top of putter stuck against sternum and with hands and arms making the stroke while the chest / torso is stationary, or 2) with the top of the putter either stuck against the sternum or not but with the chest / torso as a whole making the stroke while the hands and arms are more or less stationary and inactive. I think golfers are never clear which of these two they are or should be using, and so often fall between the cracks and make an in-between sort of stroke in which the golfer is not well in command of the movement. That's a heck of a hole in your skills floor when you're stumbling around in pitch darkness under the pressures of a major, or any pro event really. Both of these stroke techniques have a handicap for touch. The arms-hands stroke has a limited range and so is not especially flowing and instinctive outside a certain range. The upper-torso stroke tends to challenge the inner ear and vision too much and worries the golfer about direction over distance. In both cases, the belly putter suffers for touch in comparison to the conventional style.

 

[Bell812]

I've been using the belly for almost 2 yrs. now and I putted better from the very first round I had it in the bag. When I was using a conventional length putter I had issues from 5 feet and in. If I missed a short one early in the round, my confidence was gone and I would miss a bunch more. I never really thought about mechanics with the belly putter, and never went through a phase where I struggled with touch or feel with it. My problems with the conventional putter were in that dreaded zone, between the ears, and the belly has definitely helped with that.

 

[self-mastery]

I piston putt with a 10-2-D grip. My line is always pure, but my speed is sometimes off.

 

[fronesis]

I've now been putting with the belly putter for over a month, and most of that has been in competition. My club has a 'winter league' made up of better ball matches every sunday morning. I joined at the last minute and I ended up with a partner who has just learned the game of golf. He's a very nice guy, but over the 54 holes we have played, his ball has counted twice and he has finished about 6 holes (without picking up).

So, needless to say, I've had to do a bit of putting under pressure. And all I can say is that I can't see myself going back to a conventional putter any time soon. In our first match I birdied 4 of the last 12 holes, including a 40 footer at the last to win; that's more birdies than I think I have ever made in a stretch in a competition. In the last match I had to make a slippery sidehill 5 footer for eagle on the back nine, followed by 14 foot and 8 foot par putts, all to keep the match alive. I also haven't had any 3 putts, and have probably been averaging about 29 putts a round.

To put this in perspective, when I played competitively in college I averaged 35 putts a round and sometimes had 38 or more. Yes, I was an awful putter. The belly putter is a great improvement for me.