Ben Hogan and his Three Right Hands

Status
Not open for further replies.
One major difference in David Alfords swing vs Hogan.
David comes up and out of his spine angle on the downswing -- unlike Hogan.
 
I think that's nitpicking some.....this is a great swing.

Looks like his feet (both of em) slipped to me. Golf shoes (hard spikes?) on concrete (concrete?).
 
birdie_man said:
I think that's nitpicking some.....this is a great swing.

Looks like his feet (both of em) slipped to me. Golf shoes (hard spikes?) on concrete (concrete?).

Flaws can be found in every great golfer's swing and I certainly don't wish to nit pick. I especially like Hogan's more level hip turn, the fact that he doesn't dip his left shoulder in the takeaway and that he has a more horizontal release. These things could be a huge reason why Hogan didn't come out of his spine angle too early.

Very gutzy of David to show his swing especially with his past comments. I like this a lot and admire what he is trying to do. With or without a ball you can tell he has put a lot of effort into coming to terms with the Hogan swing. I bet he can play a pretty decent round of golf, too. Thanks Dave.
 
Spike said:
Flaws can be found in every great golfer's swing and I certainly don't wish to nit pick. I especially like Hogan's more level hip turn, the fact that he doesn't dip his left shoulder in the takeaway and that he has a more horizontal release. These things could be a huge reason why Hogan didn't come out of his spine angle too early.

Fair enough.....I just think he deserves some credit.

But you gave him some so that's good.

Very gutzy of David to show his swing especially with his past comments. I like this a lot and admire what he is trying to do. With or without a ball you can tell he has put a lot of effort into coming to terms with the Hogan swing. I bet he can play a pretty decent round of golf, too. Thanks Dave.
 
mb6606 said:
One major difference in David Alfords swing vs Hogan.
David comes up and out of his spine angle on the downswing -- unlike Hogan.


David is not side tilted at address like Hogan was, which causes his head and upper body to move to the right on the backswing and that move probably has something to do with the resultant upward motion on the downswing. Other than that, David's done a very good job of emulating the Hogan technique.
 
birdie_man said:
Fair enough.....I just think he deserves some credit.

But you gave him some so that's good.

As soon as they invent a really wide angle lens I'll post my swing and everyone can have a go at it. I don't mind 'cause I can't stop learning. Can't seem to stop eating either! :) Beer? Well, Thailand is just hot sometimes!!!
 
Regarding a few details mentioned...1) I know and use Hogan's side tilted address, it seems I didn't on this clip. Good observation.

btw, the day I shot this clip, I also demoed a half dozen other models, so I wasn't full set in all of them & this is why I only showed two (the other being an early set).

2) as I recall my head position at impact was very close to that at address indicating I had NOT come out of my angles. Anyone can check by putting
a pointer on the computer secreen on say nose or chin to check. I'm using a computer in Indonesia, and am just relying on memory.

3) Yes, I was on cement wearing spikes & that reduced my lower body action plus may have made keeping the angles a little harder.

Best way to analyze per Hogan is for some one to isolate the frames & post 'em side by side.

Keep in mind, I hadn't practiced Hogan's swing for a year, so I wouldn't say it was my best effort. Thanks to all for the nice comments. I hope this swing
will eventually help all who are interested.
 
Here are a few quotes about Ben Hogan from Tom Weiskopf, Tommy Bolt, and Jack Nicklaus, all of whom happened to be pretty good players:

Weiskopf: Every time I'd play with him [Ben Hogan], I could play pretty well—I felt like I was a caddie. I felt like I shouldn't even be out there. He played that much better than anybody else, in my mind, in my estimation, of the players that I ever saw play the game.


Bolt, from a Golf Digest interview (5/04): We used to play $5 greens and fairways. Boy, don't you think he [Hogan] was tough. I'm telling you, you could lose your a-- with him hitting almost every fairway and green. He hardly ever missed one.


Bolt, when in the same interview was asked "who was the best driver of the ball?": Hogan. He was long and straight. Very long. He and I used to have driving contests. Arrivederci, man. I put that son of a b---h out there and I would say, "Catch that, you little c--------r." Boy, and he would—whoosh! Whipped those f-----g hands through there—he was the greatest player I ever played with. If he could putt 25 percent as well as Palmer could, he would have won 50 more tournaments. Don't forget that he made all the putts he had to make to win his nine majors.


Editor's note introducing a Golf Digest article: When Jack Nicklaus was asked recently whether Tiger Woods is the greatest ball-striker he's ever seen, he replied quickly, "No, no -- Ben Hogan, easily." Nicklaus has seen much of Woods over the last few years and last played with Hogan in the late 1960s -- almost 20 years after Hogan had left his prime. Still, Hogan's power, precision and control was such that it left an enduring impression on the greatest golfer of all time.

It's been over a half century since Ben Hogan played regularly on the PGA Tour and yet there is still an intense interest in the man and his swing. Ben Hogan clearly was not the best golfer of all time, possibly not even of his own era, so why does he still hold such a fascination among today's golfers?

It's simple. Unlike most professional golfers who fool around with band-aid instruction and basically keep the same swing throughout their career, Ben Hogan was tireless in his efforts to improve his. When Hogan started on tour, it took something like 9 years before he won his first tournament. In 1953, pretty much at the end of his career, he played in 6 tournaments. He won 5, three of which were majors.

Ben Hogan had finally perfected his swing. No, he didn't always swing perfectly, but he did have the ability to make a perfect golf swing. It was during this period late in his career that Ben Hogan had become the best ball striker of all time! I very strongly believe that had he joined the tour with the swing he eventually developed, he would have been the best golfer of all time by such a wide margin no one would have ever challenged him.

It is Ben Hogan's golf swing and his pursuit of that swing that is responsible for our fascination with the man. If you're a golfer whose wanting to improve, you owe it to yourself to learn as much about Ben Hogan's golf swing fundamentals as you can.

Let me end this page with a paragraph written by Al Barkow:

Hogan was unique in his golf. The sound of his impact -- metal against balata and turf -- was strangely different from anyone else's. I don't say that as some sort of unreasoning idol worshipper. Others heard the same thing. There is no adequate descriptive word for it. It wasn't a thwack, or thunk or zunk. It was . . different. So, too, was the flight of his ball, the famed Hogan Fade. But the ball didn't so much fly from left to right as it seemed to be hugging a taut sheet of canvas, struggling to get through but never quite making it. The height of Hogan's shot was his alone, also. He was a low-ball hitter by ordinary reckoning, but his ball didn't go especially low. Of course, it didn't go the usual height, either. The man had forged his own channel in the sky. That's ridiculous to say, of course, but Ben Hogan was so mesmerizing at golf as to evoke such an absurd idea.
---from Casey Eberting writings
 
Ya Hogan's the man.

I like this:

It's simple. Unlike most professional golfers who fool around with band-aid instruction and basically keep the same swing throughout their career, Ben Hogan was tireless in his efforts to improve his. When Hogan started on tour, it took something like 9 years before he won his first tournament. In 1953, pretty much at the end of his career, he played in 6 tournaments. He won 5, three of which were majors.
 
Ben Hogan had finally perfected his swing. No, he didn't always swing perfectly, but he did have the ability to make a perfect golf swing. It was during this period late in his career that Ben Hogan had become the best ball striker of all time! I very strongly believe that had he joined the tour with the swing he eventually developed, he would have been the best golfer of all time by such a wide margin no one would have ever challenged him.

I think it's definitely a possibility. Although he wasn't that good of a putter was he? Not exceptional anyway, no? He woulda had short enough putts tho eh.

...

He didn't play many tournaments either tho as I understand.
 
flywheel

sagf_hogan_trail_arm_pivot.gif


just notes..

keeping the right elbow driving toward the bellybutton...

maintaining right arm bend into release...

the belly of the right forearm maintained to the sky...

the"v", the power package relationship maintained..

Hogan says he begins his release, sequential, somewhere at waist level...

looking at the amount of bent right wrist, it almost appears to be straightening just a wee bit into release, maybe an illusion...
 
birdie_man said:
Ya Hogan's the man.

I like this:
you forgot to mention he won five out of the 6 but also in the sixth he got a second place. considering he only played three majors. the most dominant season per events played of all time.
 
Cool bantambem. Ya I'm a Hogan fan for sure.

...

Look at that left wrist tho eh?

Hmm....

In the Start Down....flat....

Betcha there was no lack of wristcock either....(I bet anyway)...

(Lots of guys think that to be able to have that much cock.....he had to Double-Cock and Bend the left wrist or have a stronger grip....or shift to a stronger grip at some point in the swing....heh...)

....

Possible that from the Top....to that point (where the clip starts)....that he shifted from Double-Cocked to Flat?

I'm not so sure. (but you never know I guess)
 
birdie_man said:
I think it's definitely a possibility. Although he wasn't that good of a putter was he? Not exceptional anyway, no? He woulda had short enough putts tho eh.

...

He didn't play many tournaments either tho as I understand.

I read a stat on Hogan's putting, which I can quote because I don't recall it exactly. But it was to the effect in something like a month of tournament play he didn't miss a putt under 7 feet. Hogan get's the "couldn't putt" rap because of his well known putting problems when he was older.

Regarding to what he could have done tournament wise, I agree if he had perfected his swing when he was much younger, his record would be twice as good (and thrice as good with all the tournaments and better transportation players enjoy today).

If Hogan was around today, I think he would be one guy who could (often)beat TW, especially on U.S. Open courses. I'd give TW the advantage overall, simply because of his advantage in making most par 5's equivalent to par 4's.

But Hogan would be longer, too with better equipment and the longer ball (as well as better course conditions.
 
if hogan was around today he would be head to head with tiger. He had all the shots and towards the end of his career really backed off the tournaments but came out and played well and won alot. I recentently saw a stat that showed hogan lifetime won over 20 percent of the tournaments he played in. The only other player to be in this elite club tiger woods. Lets see if in another ten years he is still in it.
 
David Alford said:
I read a stat on Hogan's putting, which I can quote because I don't recall it exactly. But it was to the effect in something like a month of tournament play he didn't miss a putt under 7 feet. Hogan get's the "couldn't putt" rap because of his well known putting problems when he was older.

I think it was Sam Snead that was asked to pick the best player at various aspects of the game and he picked Hogan for putting. The interviewer was quite surprised and Snead told him that before the accident Hogan was the best putter he had ever seen.

I understand Hogan's putting problems were not nerve problems, but a vision issue. Perhaps that is what lead to the nerves. He had way too much pride to tell anyone though. I got this from one of the biographies on him.

Matt
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top