Bowing the wrist(Mcdowell, D.Johnson)
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Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
You're not getting pounded by the snow?
birdie_man
New
b90...
It does do what you say, all else being equal.
Add arch to your impact position, and yes you deloft.
Careful though cause it adds in-to-out-NESS to your path as well. Hopefully not too much.
I'd advise you check out the d-plane video to get a basic understanding.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...6-essential-d-plane-movie-brian-manzella.html
Technical or not, it is one of the most important things to know. It explains the "directional conponent" of impact (direction vs. speed), which concerns the direction of YOUR ball. Figure this one out and you know more than 99.something% of golfers. And once again, it is a very important something.
"Hit down and your path scews right. Hit up and your path scews left. Ball starts moreso towards the face. Path pointing away from that face will add curve to the shot." (abridged version)
Ask questions if you need to, once again.
It does do what you say, all else being equal.
Add arch to your impact position, and yes you deloft.
Careful though cause it adds in-to-out-NESS to your path as well. Hopefully not too much.
I'd advise you check out the d-plane video to get a basic understanding.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/...6-essential-d-plane-movie-brian-manzella.html
Technical or not, it is one of the most important things to know. It explains the "directional conponent" of impact (direction vs. speed), which concerns the direction of YOUR ball. Figure this one out and you know more than 99.something% of golfers. And once again, it is a very important something.
"Hit down and your path scews right. Hit up and your path scews left. Ball starts moreso towards the face. Path pointing away from that face will add curve to the shot." (abridged version)
Ask questions if you need to, once again.
S
SteveT
Guest
How did you measure that 5-9 yard increase ... just curious...?!
S
SteveT
Guest
Here's a question ... would you use an 'arched' wrist for irons taking a divot .... because I get the feeling that you could strip your stretched wrist ligaments on the top of your wrist, while going into the ground and getting a nasty backlash from the club ... and maybe with the driver too??!!!
A flat wrist seems a lot safer to me ... or even a cupped wrist with wedges, but no divot, only nipping the ball.
birdie_man
New
Interesting.
I have felt it in the wrists for sure at times. Repetitive stress of impact shock and then also more "range of motion" type strains which was more in the right wrist, I think. (it seems the left wrist can arch more than the right can bend back on itself??)
That was a few years ago, before we learned all this d-plane stuff. I would try to lean the shaft about as far as I could forward. I thought I should, just as a given. And I also felt like I had to as well, to "hold off" a hook.
This was because I was swinging so far right. And I was swinging so far right because I was so arched. It was a double-edged sword "type-deal", I guess.
When you arch you add lean, which scews the path inside. I think you also anatomically are set to swing more in to out.
If you make the opposite alignments with your wrists (bent l wrist, and flat or less bent r wrist) you may be able to see or feel how it may facilitate you swinging moreso out to in.
I have felt it in the wrists for sure at times. Repetitive stress of impact shock and then also more "range of motion" type strains which was more in the right wrist, I think. (it seems the left wrist can arch more than the right can bend back on itself??)
That was a few years ago, before we learned all this d-plane stuff. I would try to lean the shaft about as far as I could forward. I thought I should, just as a given. And I also felt like I had to as well, to "hold off" a hook.
This was because I was swinging so far right. And I was swinging so far right because I was so arched. It was a double-edged sword "type-deal", I guess.
When you arch you add lean, which scews the path inside. I think you also anatomically are set to swing more in to out.
If you make the opposite alignments with your wrists (bent l wrist, and flat or less bent r wrist) you may be able to see or feel how it may facilitate you swinging moreso out to in.
birdie_man
New
But ya...I probably often am slightly arched at impact with short irons...or who knows- maybe even for longer clubs at times too.
But with the longer clubs one would probably tend to be less arched (less foward lean)...and certainly less hitting down.
I am not too sure, as far as specifics go. It is something I'll monitor. I need a better camera as well.
And it all depends on the shot and the player.
One more thing that comes to mind, relating to your "flat or slightly cupped"...is that there are players who even are a little cupped, and still hitting down. I think Retief has been known to do it. (2 US Opens)
Brian has said that yes one can hit down like this. If you were to try it right now with a club, you could do it, physically. Why not with a ball? (if you can make it work well enough with a ball, that is)
But with the longer clubs one would probably tend to be less arched (less foward lean)...and certainly less hitting down.
I am not too sure, as far as specifics go. It is something I'll monitor. I need a better camera as well.
And it all depends on the shot and the player.
One more thing that comes to mind, relating to your "flat or slightly cupped"...is that there are players who even are a little cupped, and still hitting down. I think Retief has been known to do it. (2 US Opens)
Brian has said that yes one can hit down like this. If you were to try it right now with a club, you could do it, physically. Why not with a ball? (if you can make it work well enough with a ball, that is)
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About 15 years ago, Eric Axley had his wrist in the exact same postion (or possibly more exaggerated) and he was convinced he needed to fix it to get better. His ball flight was outstanding and the only time he got in trouble is when his swing got a bit too inside out and he fought blocks and hooks. I told him that trying to cup his wrist would not insure better contact or a better ball flight and that he should focus more on swinging to right field (he's a lefty).
Its another example of how conventional wisdom and instruction can cloud a players judgment on what is "correct" over what actually works. Until a few players come along like McDowell and Dustin Johnson who have the unconventional position and are successful with it do instructors start pointing to a bowed left wrist as a good thing.
Its another example of how conventional wisdom and instruction can cloud a players judgment on what is "correct" over what actually works. Until a few players come along like McDowell and Dustin Johnson who have the unconventional position and are successful with it do instructors start pointing to a bowed left wrist as a good thing.
makes squaring the club easier since you do not roll your left arm as much on the back swing hence you don't have to unroll as much on the downswing.Great for accuracy Also delofts the club at impact due to more forward shaft lean which can add distance. Lee Trevino knew the advantages of a bowed left wrist and since he was self taught he never listened to the "conventional wisdom" of the teaching gurus of his time that called for a "square club face" and "flat wrist at the top. Dave Pelz noted in his book "The short game bible" that Lee had the lowest percent error index (how far left or right the ball landed from the target) he ever measured. It was 5 percent vs 8 percent for the closest rivals. That is huge in professional golf. Had Lee been able to putt better we might all be asking "Jack who"?? 
Lee was asked why he never took a golf lesson,,, in his tongue in cheek way he replied " find me a teacher that can beat me and I'll take a lesson"
Lee was asked why he never took a golf lesson,,, in his tongue in cheek way he replied " find me a teacher that can beat me and I'll take a lesson"
makes squaring the club easier since you do not roll your left arm as much on the back swing hence you don't have to unroll as much on the downswing.Great for accuracy Also delofts the club at impact due to more forward shaft lean which can add distance. Lee Trevino knew the advantages of a bowed left wrist and since he was self taught he never listened to the "conventional wisdom" of the teaching gurus of his time that called for a "square club face" and "flat wrist at the top. Dave Pelz noted in his book "The short game bible" that Lee had the lowest percent error index (how far left or right the ball landed from the target) he ever measured. It was 5 percent vs 8 percent for the closest rivals. That is huge in professional golf. Had Lee been able to putt better we might all be asking "Jack who"??
Lee was asked why he never took a golf lesson,,, in his tongue in cheek way he replied " find me a teacher that can beat me and I'll take a lesson"
thank you duckhook. i hope typing your alias is not contagious
anyway, very nice explanation and i understand what you said. allow me to ask a similar question:
is bowing the left wrist essentially the same as holding the hinge in the right wrist (since they go together)?
IMO I think bow and arch left wrist is not exactly the same. Bow to me means to me that if you let your left arm go limp and just flex and extend the wrist then if would flip from cup to bow. If you hold out your left arm out horizontal and attempt to "bow" then you might feel an arch because of the rotation of the left arm. IMO this is a very powerful left wrist position and is what I prefer in the DS.
Hogan was one that had cup left wrist at top then become arched in the DW.
McDowell and Johnson goes from a bow wrist at top to arched in the DW.
I think a "flat" left wrist robs you from power.
Hogan was one that had cup left wrist at top then become arched in the DW.
McDowell and Johnson goes from a bow wrist at top to arched in the DW.
I think a "flat" left wrist robs you from power.
hello dlam, not sure if you were referring to my post. i was asking left vs right wrist, that is, is the bow of the left wrist the "same" as sustained hinging of the right wrist?
the reason i asked that is because when i introduced this concept--left wrist bowing-- to my kids, they had a hard time understanding and getting the precise location/position of the left wrist bowing. when i said to sustain the right wrist hinge through the impact, they had no problem. and when they did the right wrist sustained hinger, at least to my eyes, the left wrist was bowed. since the the two go hand in hand so to speak, i wonder if the 2 approaches result in the same outcome...
Dlam, do you mind explaining why you think a flat left wrist is a power loss?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
All things being equal, an arched (bowed) left wrist at impact will hit the ball farther because it will de-loft the club.
No doubt about that...... but would you say it's harder for things to be "equal" (speed wise) if someone acquired that position prior to impact? I know a DJ example would be easy to throw out there, but Im just asking in general.
Thanks
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Most long hitters are in a "grip end forward of the left arm" position at impact. If you grip is string enough, you do it by maintaining wrist cock—if it is weak enough, it is wrist ARCH.
I would say that it IS possible to generate more speed this way, but it would slow many folks down.
Most folks who do it, acquire it prior to impact.
chipingguru
New
I think ole Bill Rogers of 1981 Open fame had a "arched" left wrist like Brian was referring to. Had the weak left hand grip.
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