Brian: The "new?" imperatives....

[cmartingolf]

The only imperatives are a true path (the 3D path of the sweetspot) and true clubface (i.e. "Lie Ange tool") that are aligning for a D-plane ("Ball Flight") of your choosing, with enough power generated to have the ball travel far enough.

Period.

Of course this matters for someone who has developed the skills to repeat this formula. Most folks can't come close to repeating the same D plane and power source and it is random at best.

Thus, imo, they need to understand all the elements that allow them to control the true path, true clubface, alignment of the D plane and power source.

Wouldn't imperatives come before the results?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Of course this matters for someone who has developed the skills to repeat this formula. Most folks can't come close to repeating the same D plane and power source and it is random at best.

Thus, imo, they need to understand all the elements that allow them to control the true path, true clubface, alignment of the D plane and power source.

Wouldn't imperatives come before the results?

im⋅per⋅a⋅tive   [im-per-uh-tiv]
–adjective
1. absolutely necessary or required; unavoidable.

 

[Brian Manzella]

"Which TGM Imperatives are really imperative?" —Tom Bartlett

The answer is .....none.

You don't need a flat left wrist, lag pressure, or a straight plane line to hit a perfect shot.

Now, how is the best ways to get "the desired true path (the 3D path of the sweetspot) and true clubface (i.e. "Lie Ange tool") that are aligning for a D-plane ("Ball Flight") of your choosing, with enough power generated"?

Ah...

First of all, you need to be able to make a motion that generates power and has basic control over true path, and you have NO CHANCE if you can't control the clubface.

How do you control the clubface?

Ah....

You better not say "Hinge Action" since nobody can Horizontal Hinge.

Hmmm...

Interesting....

But Brian, what does these all mean...should I NOT try to have "lag pressure"??

Well....

Would you be willing to bet that anyone has a lag pressure point that works like you have been told?

What about "tracing"?

Would you be willing to bet that anyone does this AT ALL like they say they do?

What about a "Straight Plane Line"?

You better know how downward the TRUE PATH is, or the ball will hurt your feelings.

Lots of questions.

I have a lot of the answers, and I will get some more.

But, this should be an interesting discussion, huh?

 

[pecky987]

i've always thought that the "imperatives" talked about by TGM weren't acually imperative lol

Lag pressure. hmmm...

all this basically means is hitting the ball on the way down. no-one can possibly disagree with that. you cant hit a ball of the ground on the up. end of. but does a "lag pressure point" actually neccessary to hit the ball on the way down.

answer - no

straight plane line.

more accurate would be "straight path of clubhead through impact". and unless you hit the ball at low point, a straight plane line wont give you that.

clubface control.

you have to control the clubface. but hinge action with a flat left wrist is not the way you HAVE to do it. since no-one can horizontal hinge, and plenty of great players have bent left wrists past impact and through he follow through, then it is hardly essential or imperative.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Now i don't claim to have had any ideas but brian's response is where i started taking my teaching at the tail end before i "quit." I really didn't care about much anymore with positions, flat left wrists, etc. All i wanted to do was make the ball do what you wanted in a way where you could repeat and it went the distance it should based on your swing speed; meaning you weren't adding loft to the shot somewhere.

The rest imo as brian says is "showbiz." Who cares how it looks if it's repeatable and ball goes where you want?

 

[ColinMB]

The path discussion interests me most. There are so many over the top players that make it work. KJ Choi, Colin Montgomerie, Ben Curtis, etc. etc. etc. How do they do it?

I get too fixated on this I believe. They make it work, but some are so successful coming DEEP inside. I assume each path may also come with its own 'imperatives'. I'm curious about this.

 

[pecky987]

The path discussion interests me most. There are so many over the top players that make it work. KJ Choi, Colin Montgomerie, Ben Curtis, etc. etc. etc. How do they do it?

I get too fixated on this I believe. They make it work, but some are so successful coming DEEP inside. I assume each path may also come with its own 'imperatives'. I'm curious about this.

theres a big difference between coming OTT and swinging "over your backswing"

 

[jenhaoyen]

theres a big difference between coming OTT and swinging "over your backswing"

I AGREE

 

[Bigwill]

theres a big difference between coming OTT and swinging "over your backswing"

bullseye.

 

[cmartingolf]

The answer is .....none.

Okay, this thread should get juicy.

No lag pressure? I'm not a fan of the description, but there is pressure on the shaft (going back and coming down) as there is pressure on the keys to type this note. Call it whatever.

Flat left wrist? I don't really like that description either (as the orientation of the wrist can be many ways based on grip selection), but there is a common thread with people that apply "pressure" better than others. At impact, there is a straightish or bowed (club still seeking straight) combination of the shaft and left arm common to better strikers.

Straight Plane Line? I have been enlighted and educated a great deal thanks to BM's site. Now I feel I know what a straight plane line really is!

I can sure attest, as a player, that once I understood (or thought I did) the "three imperitives," I enhanced my skills as a player.

Lag pressure thoughts gave me better rythym.

Flat left wrist (leverage) gave me more consistent distance control and the ability to flight the ball as needed.

The combination of the two above where "UGE."

Straight plane line tought me the shape of the swing and the "leftness" of the follow through.

Now prior to leaning all this stuff, I was a good player anyway. I got a scholarship at a D1 school. Got my Canadian Tour card and played a few Nationwide events. The problem back then, 120 years ago, even though I could play well for a stretch (sub 70's), I didn't understand my misses at all and got rattled when something crept in.

A TGM instructor was very helpful to eliminate some of the question marks. I still hit the odd Chef Special, but I'm not left bewilderd prior to some good TGM.

Where am I going? What the hell are we going to teach people if not for some basics that have to happen. I don't give a darn about methods or what a dude looks like, but..... "does the club work like a club" (to quote an Italian) and what language is best to help the chopper get the club working like a club.

Off to bed.

Cheers.

 

[KOC]

Dear Brian,

I really think that you are so much alike my all time idol, Bruce Lee...why? coz he created his own "JEET KUNE DO" concepts after his basic WING CHUN training and learning from various types of martial art.

<OHis concept was to free his followers from clinging to any style, pattern, or mold

Here are some quotes from Bruce Lee:-<O</O
<O
“In JKD, one does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity.
Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. It is the halfway cultivation that leads to ornamentation.”

<O“Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle. In short, enter a mold without being caged in it. Obey the principle without being bound by it. LEARN, MASTER AND ACHIEVE!!!”

OK...too much on Bruce, now may I ask a few questions to dissolve the principle? What is the principle of TGM and how shall we perceive regarding:

“Confession of former flipper” in relation to 1) A “flat” left wrist<O;
“Never slice again” content on lagging the sweet spot in relation to 2) A clubhead lag pressure point and finally your little trusted “blue plane board” in relation to 3) a straight plane line.

Thanks.

 

[rcw]

I still have to think working on TGM imperatives helps a lot of students...

But I can see your points.

 

[jenhaoyen]

i think swing left....is probably the best thing that has ever happened to me.
oh..and SD backswing!!

 

[birdie_man]

The path discussion interests me most. There are so many over the top players that make it work. KJ Choi, Colin Montgomerie, Ben Curtis, etc. etc. etc. How do they do it?

I get too fixated on this I believe. They make it work, but some are so successful coming DEEP inside. I assume each path may also come with its own 'imperatives'. I'm curious about this.

Lots of guys "come over their backswing" Colin. (C-Dog) Different than a slicer's move. (you know that though)

And.....some people are just meant to swing on the TSP I think.

Shoot...I don't "get" the Elbow Plane as much as I'd like to. (so far it is not my "bag" for whatever reason)

But Brian, what does these all mean...should I NOT try to have "lag pressure"??

Well....

Would you be willing to bet that anyone has a lag pressure point that works like you have been told?

I'm not sure I understand Brian.

What is the "as you have been told" and what is the reality of it?

 

[birdie_man]

i think swing left....is probably the best thing that has ever happened to me.
oh..and SD backswing!!

I'm with you.

After FINALLY really getting a fade down (fade it every single time) and then over-doing it I feel I am really set to take off now.

I hope anyhow.