Chipping and Pitching off soggy/muddy lies?

[finncox]

I've run into this a lot this winter, as the grass has been dormant, or dead, but the areas around the greens are still soggy due to rain/watering.

What's the best approach? I have managed ok, but it's really easy to come up short on pitches/chips from these kinds of lies, or stick the club in the ground.

Should I be trying to take more club, and hit a lower shot, or use the bounce of a wedge and pick it off the ground? Any tips are appreciated.

 

[cwdlaw223]

I have this same problem. I think this shot is hard no matter what remedy one tries (ex. shallow attack angle, higher bounce, bigger sole on the wedge). One thing that has helped me is making sure I don't have any pivot stall which will cause a flip.

 

[Todd Dugan]

In order for the ball to impact "up" on the sweet spot, the leading edge must travel below the ball fractionally before impact. This does not normally slow the clubhead when the turf is dense and the ground firm. But when the ground is wet and soft, around the greens, it gives way too easily, slowing the clubhead's velocity.....fat, basically. The best play is to allow for the slightly fat shot, sort of like a bunker shot. Just make a bigger stroke to compensate. You can try to pick it clean, but there's a good reason that we intentionally hit behind the ball from greenside bunkers.

 

[finncox]

In order for the ball to impact "up" on the sweet spot, the leading edge must travel below the ball fractionally before impact. This does not normally slow the clubhead when the turf is dense and the ground firm. But when the ground is wet and soft, around the greens, it gives way too easily, slowing the clubhead's velocity.....fat, basically. The best play is to allow for the slightly fat shot, sort of like a bunker shot. Just make a bigger stroke to compensate. You can try to pick it clean, but there's a good reason that we intentionally hit behind the ball from greenside bunkers.

This makes sense, and I guess it's way better than the alternative of blading it over the green trying to be too precise.

 

[cwdlaw223]

How does slowing the clubhead's velocity cause a fat shot? I suspect that it happens, I'm just can't get my arms around why it happens.

 

[Todd Dugan]

How does slowing the clubhead's velocity cause a fat shot? I suspect that it happens, I'm just can't get my arms around why it happens.

A fat shot is when the sole of the clubhead meets too much earth, or other stuff that isn't the ball, before impact. This slows the clubhead's velocity. What might be perfect impact from a "good" lie is easily "fat" from sand and mud, since the sole doesn't slide through sand and mud as easily as through grass and thatch.

 

[Jwat]

Just take a longer slower swing. Keep weight forward

 

[mjstrong]

Todd's advice is good. Alternatively, I like to play lower, running shots more often in the wet (more club, bump & run).

 

[cwdlaw223]

A fat shot is when the sole of the clubhead meets too much earth, or other stuff that isn't the ball, before impact. This slows the clubhead's velocity. What might be perfect impact from a "good" lie is easily "fat" from sand and mud, since the sole doesn't slide through sand and mud as easily as through grass and thatch.

Isn't that an attack angle issue? Or is impact long enough where the ground counts to compress the ball? Soft = hard to compress against the face. I don't understand how the face can slow down.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Isn't that an attack angle issue? Or is impact long enough where the ground counts to compress the ball? Soft = hard to compress against the face. I don't understand how the face can slow down.

You don't think that the clubhead is slowing as it cuts through earth? What else explains why a badly "chunked" shots comes up well short?

The ball compresses against the clubface. The ground condition has nothing to do with ball compression. But if you want to impact the sweet spot of a sand wedge, the leading edge must get below the ball before impact. Otherwise, you'll only make impact on the bottom of the clubface. This is fine if you want a low, hot chip. But if you want to get the ball to launch higher, with more spin, from impacting the sweet spot, then the leading edge has to touch down fractionally before the ball. If the ground is wet, muddy, sandy, then the speed of the club will be noticibly slowed before impact. This is why you have to create 2-3 times more clubhead speed to hit a greenside bunker shot than from the same distance from grass. A slightly muddy lie might only require a slightly more powerful stroke. You must "read" the lie and be precise with the entry point of the club's sole.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Thanks. Now I got it.

 

[BIGBALL]

In order for the ball to impact "up" on the sweet spot, the leading edge must travel below the ball fractionally before impact. This does not normally slow the clubhead when the turf is dense and the ground firm. But when the ground is wet and soft, around the greens, it gives way too easily, slowing the clubhead's velocity.....fat, basically. The best play is to allow for the slightly fat shot, sort of like a bunker shot. Just make a bigger stroke to compensate. You can try to pick it clean, but there's a good reason that we intentionally hit behind the ball from greenside bunkers.

I agree. I played Swan Point in Southern Md a couple weeks ago -it was soaked - all the snow had just melted. The 1st pitch I hit was fat and didn't even make it to the green. After that, I just took a swing that normally would hit the ball probably 10 - 15 yards further on a normal day. Worked out pretty well for the most part. It definitely mentally is tough to swing harder than you normally need to though!

 

[Jwat]

I agree. I played Swan Point in Southern Md a couple weeks ago -it was soaked - all the snow had just melted. The 1st pitch I hit was fat and didn't even make it to the green. After that, I just took a swing that normally would hit the ball probably 10 - 15 yards further on a normal day. Worked out pretty well for the most part. It definitely mentally is tough to swing harder than you normally need to though!

Hence, taking a longer slower swing!