Extensor action fog

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goodgolf57

goodgolf57

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To my understanding, extensor action must be applied though the entire stroke for consistancy. In the case of a pure swinging downstroke, doesn’t the pushing force of the right arm needed to stretch the left arm put a radial (axe handle) force on the shaft in contradiction to the longitudinal force needed for swinging. I can’t feel #3 or pulling when I apply 6-B-1-D as I understand it.


Thanks in Advance
 
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MizunoJoe

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goodgolf,

You should be pulling with #3 lengthwise on the shaft with the upper forearm muscle. When the left wrist cocks, the pull will still be along the shaft with no side pressure. Sounds like you are using the right tricep.
 
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holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

goodgolf,

You should be pulling with #3 lengthwise on the shaft with the upper forearm muscle. When the left wrist cocks, the pull will still be along the shaft with no side pressure. Sounds like you are using the right tricep.
Click to expand...

Aren't you were supposed to use the right triceps?
 
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MizunoJoe

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holen1,

That is "implied" in 6-B-1-D. However, it "feels" to me that it's the muscles in the upper arm which apply the "pull". Hold a club out in front of yourself, with the left wrist fully cocked(club vertical). Now pull on the shaft as if you were trying to pull it out of the left hand with #3pp. The shaft stays vertical and goes straight up. That's extensor action. Now start over, and push with the right tricep instead. The club moves away from you. That's the hitter's pushing motion, which uncocks the left wrist. Now start over, yet again, and do BOTH. They are two distinct, independent muscle actions, and can be done simultaneously.
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

So is the force vector applied by the right arm for extensor action always along the shaft or is some of the force across the shaft?
Click to expand...

Extensor Action is a below plane force. Its exclusive function is to try to straighten the right arm. Straighten, only; it never moves the left arm and, thus, never moves the club. Because of Extensor Action, the right triceps can never be totally "passive".
 
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holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

holen1,

That is "implied" in 6-B-1-D. However, it "feels" to me that it's the muscles in the upper arm which apply the "pull". Hold a club out in front of yourself, with the left wrist fully cocked(club vertical). Now pull on the shaft as if you were trying to pull it out of the left hand with #3pp. The shaft stays vertical and goes straight up. That's extensor action. Now start over, and push with the right tricep instead. The club moves away from you. That's the hitter's pushing motion, which uncocks the left wrist. Now start over, yet again, and do BOTH. They are two distinct, independent muscle actions, and can be done simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your explanation, Mizuno Joe. But I am still confused. If you pull up on a clubshaft that is being held straight out in front of you, woldn't htat be above the plane? Isn't the stretch supposed to be beloe the plane? And isn't the left arm moving away form you what you're trying to do? LAlso, is extensor action different for hitters and swingers? Thank you.
 
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DDL

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Think of pulling the left arm and clubshaft into a straight line through PP3 via extensor action of the right arm. Homer describes it as pulling on both ends of a rope.
 
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Archie Swivel

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I must misapply extensor action because when I attempt it, it seems to INHIBIT left wrist cock. I feel like I have to 'let up' on it to enable my left wrist to cock when I try to float load. What am I not getting?

Also 6-B-1-D states that extensor is in operation from impact fix through follow-through. It also says that the stretch direction is always below plane. How can that be true on the downstroke which is a down-and-out force?
 
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MizunoJoe

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holen1,

Yes it is below plane. The illustration was to show direction of the pull with respect to #3pp, shaft and the left hand. When done in address position it will be below plane. Extensor action is the same for hitting and swinging.
 
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MizunoJoe

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Arch,

You have to be able to apply the pull at #3pp along the shaft while cocking and uncocking the left wrist by bending and straightening the right elbow. Homer says that "...improperly executed, it can cause clubhead throwaway. In which case, use #1 Pressure Point and pull on the left thumb...".

I don't understand the last paragraph. The CLUBHEAD goes down, out, and forward, while this stretching through #3 pp AND sensing lag pressure at #3 goes on.

I'm sure Brian could SHOW you how extensor action works very quickly.
 
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MizunoJoe

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rwh,

Yes the club doesn't move when extensor action is applied in the address position. In my illustration above, the club moves straight up, but only because there is nothing to pull against, unless you pull downward with the left hand. It was just to show that the pull is along the shaft.
 
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6bee1dee

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Think of extensor action as getting your 'quiet" hands to reach your aiming point. Don't forget the pivot ! The pivot is the mule and the hands are the driver controling.

The right arm will always have that feeling of desperation to reach the aiming point before the clubhead hits the ball.

hey my screen name is 6b1d got be good for something.
 
rwh

rwh

New
I don't understand Extensor Action to be related to or dependent on left arm or clubshaft orientation. It is nothing more than the right arm trying to straighten itself. It cannot straighten itself because the left arm stops it ("Checkrein Action" 6-B-1-0). Yes, the left arm gets "pulled", but that's not what you're trying to do. It's like a dog tied up to a leash. The dog tries to run away, but he is stopped by the leash. The dog wasn't trying to pull the leash taught; he was trying to get away. The right arm isn't trying to pull the left arm taught -- it is trying to get away.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
rwh,

The dog(#3 pp) must try to "get away" ONLY along the shaft line, otherwise it would completely eliminate #3 at address, and be wristcock throwaway on the downswing. If it IS as you say, explain how you could execute extensor action, and at the same time cock the left wrist on the BS by bending the right elbow? Extensor action is "...in operation from Impact Fix to the end of the Follow-through."

Here is another try at the feeling - You are trying to stretch the grip and make it longer from #2 pp to #3 pp.
 
rwh

rwh

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quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

rwh,

The dog(#3 pp) must try to "get away" ONLY along the shaft line, otherwise it would completely eliminate #3 at address, and be wristcock throwaway on the downswing. If it IS as you say, explain how you could execute extensor action, and at the same time cock the left wrist on the BS by bending the right elbow? Extensor action is "...in operation from Impact Fix to the end of the Follow-through."

Here is another try at the feeling - You are trying to stretch the grip and make it longer from #2 pp to #3 pp.
Click to expand...

Joe,

I don't diagree with anything you've said. I very well could be doing Extensor Action incorrectly. My confusion appears to be in that EA is a below plane force and, since the clubshaft is on-plane, I'm having a hard time relating EA to the clubshaft. I really like your visual about trying to stretch the grip to make it longer between #2 and #3.
 
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matt

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This may help clear things up.

The left arm is never on plane. At address, the clubshaft is on a flatter plane than your left arm. Put another way, the left arm is "steeper" than the clubshaft at address.

When you "pull" on the left arm using PP3, you are stretching the left arm straight. Since the left arm is "steeper" than the clubshaft at address, you are in essence pulling under the plane - "below plane."

I drew a few lines on Tiger here.

http://img33.photobucket.com/albums/v101/golfer1/tiger1.jpg

Note his left arm plane and then the clubshaft plane. Imagine how if he was pulling his left arm with PP3 how that would stretch his left arm BELOW THE CLUBSHAFT PLANE.
 
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6bee1dee

New
I think we are over analyzing this. The right arm needs to always be pushing, as Ben tells, but both arms canNOT be straight til after impact. To avoid over reaching have the hands try to reach your aiming point and pivot.
 
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Archie Swivel

New
Matt,

That definitely makes a difference because I was applying the extensor action in such a way that the left arm and shaft were beginning to line up more TOWARD a straightER line and it was inhibiting left wrist cock. I can feel pp#1 more when I think about straightening the left ARM instead of stretching the clubshaft. But I feel pp#3 less. I will say, however, that I don't think that theory is consistent with Mizuno's about stretching the grip though. I'm not trying to start an argument between you guys or anything. And it may be that your are both right, I don't know. But if the shaft and the left arm are NOT on the same plane, then applying pressure ALONG the shaft would not serve to straighten the left arm. Thus the pressure would seem to me partially ACROSS the shaft/grip.

So do you and Mizuno agree with each other? (asking for a good healthy debate here because I have come to respect both of your input)

Arch
 
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matt

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You pull the left arm straight with PP3. Simple as that. Forget about which way you're pulling, etc., just pull the left arm with your right forefinger.
 
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