Fixing a Steep Shoulder Turn on Backswing

[speedracer68]

I've just gotten a horrible fault on the backswing..my shoulder turn started getting steeper..now i've just kept the shoulder turn 90' to the spine tilt and my swing started to improve right away..I know the right shoulder goes down plane on the downswing and it's working well..

My question is am i doing the right thing turning the shoulders level to the spine on the backswing??

How did i develop a steep shoulder turn on the backswing?? it creeps up on me now and then if i know how it comes in i may be able to stop it entirely..Thanks in advance my golfing friends..

 

[Brian Manzella]

De-Steepening.

Ok.

Let's assume that your shoulders are turning too steep on the backswing.

I see it a lot on my lesson tee.

Here is a list of fixes, feels and remedies.

1. FEEL LIKE your right shoulder never gets any higher as you go back.

2. FEEL LIKE your left shoulder never gets any lower going back.

3. FEEL LIKE the distance from your right shoulder to your right hip, stays the same.

4. Turn your right hip EARLY, with no "hip travel" to the right.

5. Never let the "water run out of your left ear."

6. If your runny nose drip between your feet at address, have it drip on your right big toe at the top.

7. Make sure your belt buckle point behind the ball at address.

8. Make sure your have either the same amount or LESS flex in your right leg at address.

9. Keep your right side UNDER your left side.

10. Stay tuned to BrianManzella.com

 

[dodger]

Great list. Brian, any advice on coordinating early hip turn with the up duty of the arms? I struggle with turning my hips early and the club going too far behind me. How do you combine the early hip turn with enough up.

 

[niblick1]

Perfect timing on this set of questions.

Brian, when you were working with me on these issues to fix my pivot and get my shoulder turn less steep, I found it incredibly hard. I played Saturday after hitting a lot of balls last week and hit quite a few good shots but also still hit some big pulls and realized I still just wasn't there on my backswing turn. I was really manipulating my arms and hands to try to get to the inside of the ball.

Late yesterday, I went to the range and had been thinking all day about you different examples and thought about the issue of how on my steep backswing I was actually increasing distance between my right hip and right shoulder on the backswing, thus making it really hard to move far enough fast enough to crunch back towards my right hip on the downswing. I decided to over-emphasize the flat shoulder move and crunch my right shoulder towards my right hip on the backswing and then think only about crunching (my right should towards my hip even more) and firing my right shoulder. It immediately changed everything. I understood the "wall then ball."

I really felt like I had a hacker's backswing with these shots, but I started actually hitting the inside of the ball on almost every shot and using the Soft Draw downswing line. I do not think I have ever the hit the inside of the ball this consistently before with so little manipulation on the downswing. I was hitting very high true soft draws (nothing pullish about any of the shots). I realized then I have compensating for my pulls and pull hooks by playing with an open clubface and moved the clubface back to square and could even hit the ball with a slightly closed clubface (which before with my pulls would have been absolutely deadly). I was killing the ball. On the follow through I was ending up with the hands off to my left side in the "A. Cabrera/Doyle/Manzella position," and I didn't even know how they got here. I started doing the little relax and twirl the club thing when the ball landed. It felt incredible to be so balanced and relaxed at the end of the shot. The only off shots I hit were the occasional slightly fat or thin shots.

So here's my question, how flat is too flat going back? The distance between right shoulder and right hip should be constant on the backswing - is there ever a time it's ok to have a little crunch on the backswing as well? Is that just a feel I need for now to make up for my steepness?

I also watched quite a few pro swings on video last night with close attention to the shoulder turn. I love the way Cabrera and Westwood mash the ball with their right shoulder, but it looked like their backswings were just a little steeper than I was aiming for. Lorena Ochoa's (and N. Gulbis') swing looked almost as flat on the backswing as I felt I was going. Every player I looked at dropped their right shoulder to the ball on the downswing, but the amount of backswing flatness seemed to vary - does the need for flatness going back vary according to player? Does this depend on whether you are playing Soft Draw (more women with flatter back swings to hit a draw for extra distance) vs. Soft Fade?

 

[speedracer68]

Thank you so much for the advice brian..I really appreciate it..your the best..=)

 

[speedracer68]

Ok.

Let's assume that your shoulders are turning too steep on the backswing.

I see it a lot on my lesson tee.

Here is a list of fixes, feels and remedies.

1. FEEL LIKE your right shoulder never gets any higher as you go back.

2. FEEL LIKE your left shoulder never gets any lower going back.

3. FEEL LIKE the distance from your right shoulder to your right hip, stays the same.

4. Turn your right hip EARLY, with no "hip travel" to the right.

5. Never let the "water run out of your left ear."

6. If your runny nose drip between your feet at address, have it drip on your right big toe at the top.

7. Make sure your belt buckle point behind the ball at address.

8. Make sure your have either the same amount or LESS flex in your right leg at address.

9. Keep your right side UNDER your left side.

10. Stay tuned to BrianManzella.com

Ohhhh my god Brian i printed all these tips and i tried to feel all of them on the practice tee..I just played today and it was one of my best ball striking days ever..Inspite of two doubles and a boget i was still able to pull of a four over..What a great set of tips..All i had to worry about on the downswing was my pivot..everything was in perfect position..Badabing badaboom..Next thing i know i'm stacked on my followthrough in beautiful balance just watching the ball sail straight and true..These pointers are pure gold..I owe you Bigtime brian..Thank you soo much..You Kick Butch's and Hank's Ass in my book..hehehe..I'm going to the states early next year I hope to Schedule Maybe two or three sessions with the ITALIAN Stallion..=)..Thanks again.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Answers. Answers. Answers.

So here's my question, how flat is too flat going back?

If you need to STEEPEN your shoulder plane at the start down for the desired plane line

The distance between right shoulder and right hip should be constant on the backswing - is there ever a time it's ok to have a little crunch on the backswing as well? Is that just a feel I need for now to make up for my steepness?

There is some truth to it, anatomically, but, for the most part, it is a FEEL you need.

does the need for flatness going back vary according to player?

Abso-friggin-lutely.

Does this depend on whether you are playing Soft Draw (more women with flatter back swings to hit a draw for extra distance) vs. Soft Fade?

Ditto.

 

[Brian Manzella]

First of all...

Great list. Brian, any advice on coordinating early hip turn with the up duty of the arms? I struggle with turning my hips early and the club going too far behind me. How do you combine the early hip turn with enough up.

Do you need the early turn?

 

[dodger]

Good point. There have been times I have focused on turning my right hip back first, resulting in strong right to left shots. However, my bad shots are awful, shanks, pushes and fat shots. I cannot take a good divot with irons and feel it is the result of my arms and club turning too flat and swinging too in to out. That feel is based as well on this site. I am convinced that an early hip turn is beneficial, I am hoping for a key that would promote it and keep me from swinging too flat or behind me.