Good Players?

[cmartingolf]

So, I just completed a round robin Fourball match play tournament. I had the good fortune of being on the winning side after 5 matches. Yea for me.

The teams were comprised of Pro/Pro, Pro/Am and Am/Am. Anyone could play; all you had to do was qualify and be among the low 32 teams.

My partner has played at a high level for a lot of years. Former European Tour, Canadian Tour, some PGA Tour events. He's been removed from that kind of competition for a few years now.

I played on the Canadian Tour for a few years and a few Nationwide events, but I didn't scare anybody.

Here's my observations:

A lot of the guys could drive the ball. Reasonably long and fairly straight. Some were bombers. My partner and I are not bombers. Some putts went in, some didn't.

The difference:

IRON PLAY.... wow. Aside from my partner who can flight the ball and curve it both ways, very few could actually "STRIKE" iron shots! I was amazed. I saw tons of missed opportunity after well positioned tee shots (we benefited from that) The course presented plenty of short iron approaches to receptive greens.

Conclusion:

Leaky driver swings work fine..actually pretty well. Leaky iron swings = par or bogey rather than par or birdie.

Learn how to trap and flight your irons. High "bombed" iron shots are farts in the wind.

Brian's 85% rule? I think he could bump that up to 95%.

 

[Festus]

Absolutely spot on observation.

Played a 2 man scramble tournament with my brother a week ago. Now we're a couple of hacks but have our moments from time to time. We both had a good day off the tee. Here's what I hit on my approach on the 13 non par 3's:

9 wedges
1 9 iron
1 8 iron
1 7 iron
1 4 iron

Of these, we made 1 birdie. Pretty comical actually.

So what's a good practice routine for <120 yds?

 

[holeout]

Brian's 85% rule? I think he could bump that up to 95%.

What rule is this? I'm unfamiliar.

 

[cmartingolf]

Absolutely spot on observation.

Played a 2 man scramble tournament with my brother a week ago. Now we're a couple of hacks but have our moments from time to time. We both had a good day off the tee. Here's what I hit on my approach on the 13 non par 3's:

9 wedges
1 9 iron
1 8 iron
1 7 iron
1 4 iron

Of these, we made 1 birdie. Pretty comical actually.

So what's a good practice routine for <120 yds?

That's basically what I saw with a bunch of low handicapers and club pros. Basically, they were leaky and flippy. I think Brian's "Flipper" video or COFF is an awesome way to gain clubhead awareness.

I saw a lot of players try and "muscle" iron shots. I think most of golfdom thinks they hit it farther than they really do. If the greens are soft, you don't have to rip irons.

"Hit it with your pivot," not your hands.

What rule is this? I'm unfamiliar.

To paraphase, "85% of the golfing population cannot take a divot ahead of the ball and hit a draw."

In order to do that, you have to have a nice blend of path, attack angle and face control - not easy.

 

[Richie3Jack]

According to AimPoint Golf, the top 5 statistics that correlate to PGA Tour Stroke Average are:

1. GIR
2. Putts/GIR
3. Double Bogey or Worse Rate
4. Scrambling %
5. 'Go For Its.'

'Go For It's' means going for par-5's in two (whether you reach them or not is a moot point because getting closer to the hole generally lowers the score).

Those are all pretty much ballstriking stats. Even Putts/GIR since the closer you can strike the ball to the cup in regulation, the more likely you are to make the putt.





3JACK

 

[fronesis]

IRON PLAY.... wow. Aside from my partner who can flight the ball and curve it both ways, very few could actually "STRIKE" iron shots! I was amazed. I saw tons of missed opportunity after well positioned tee shots (we benefited from that) The course presented plenty of short iron approaches to receptive greens.

Conclusion:

Leaky driver swings work fine..actually pretty well. Leaky iron swings = par or bogey rather than par or birdie.

Learn how to trap and flight your irons. High "bombed" iron shots are farts in the wind.

Brian's 85% rule? I think he could bump that up to 95%.

I couldn't agree more.

I played for a couple of years on a windy links course in Wales and now I'm playing on typical American courses, and it amazes me how many more good ballstrikers I ran into there compared to here.

I wonder if technology isn't a bit to blame. Driver heads the size of basketballs are much easier to hit a long way with a flippy swing. Hybrids and lots of fairway woods also make it easier to get away with leakage.

 

[birdie_man]

I could always drive it well and often even 300+ with a leaky driver swing.

Long iron sitting up no problem.

Shorter iron? Wedge? Pure crapola. (lie didn't matter)

I guess the thing with irons is you have to hit down on em. But too much and your d-plane gets adjusted too far inside-out.

And on the other side of it, if you add too much loft to a wedge you're done. (easier to get away with it with driver)

Unless you have a slice, flip, or hook, I've found it a very good idea, as Brian and the MGA guys have said, to seek the center of The Matrix (straight ballflight) with min. downward strike...then learn to hit shots.

My flippy swing did hit it straight and needless to say there was little downward strike. But that's with a flip which is not a desireable mechanic in itself.

I've had to find "the center" with min. downward one more time since. (since being put through the NSA/Flipper, NHA, SD ringer)

Man, irons are tough no doubt.

Esp. when you need to be able to hit other clubs too. (often the same swing doesn't always work through the bag)

Looking pretty promising ATM though.

 

[birdie_man]

Absolutely spot on observation.

Played a 2 man scramble tournament with my brother a week ago. Now we're a couple of hacks but have our moments from time to time. We both had a good day off the tee. Here's what I hit on my approach on the 13 non par 3's:

9 wedges
1 9 iron
1 8 iron
1 7 iron
1 4 iron

Of these, we made 1 birdie. Pretty comical actually.

I can relate to that too well.

According to AimPoint Golf, the top 5 statistics that correlate to PGA Tour Stroke Average are:

1. GIR
2. Putts/GIR
3. Double Bogey or Worse Rate
4. Scrambling %
5. 'Go For Its.'





3JACK

Good stuff man. I like this a lot.

1. Hit more greens in reg. (need to drive it well enough)

2. Putt better.

3. Keep it in play. (no lost balls)

4. Get it up and down when you do miss a green. (hopefully in a good spot)

5. Birdie the par 5s.

The Bottom Line of a very good Basic Strategy.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Good stuff man. I like this a lot.

1. Hit more greens in reg. (need to drive it well enough)

2. Putt better.

3. Keep it in play. (no lost balls)

4. Get it up and down when you do miss a green. (hopefully in a good spot)

5. Birdie the par 5s.

The Bottom Line of a very good Basic Strategy.

I actually look at it a bit differently.

1. GIR = ballstriking statistic. Requires good driving, good iron play and ability to hit shots out of tough lies on the approach shot.

2. Putting and ballstriking statistic. Nice to putt well, but a mediocre putter who has a 5 footer for birdie will certainly make more putts than a good putter who has a 20 footer for birdie.

3. Another ballstriking statistic. Basically the ball has to be kept in play. 4-putts are rare, so hitting the GIR makes it very hard to take a double or worse.

4. A shortgame statistic tied in with ballstriking. If I just barely miss the green I have an easier time getting up and down than the golfer who misses the green by a mile.

5. Another ballstriking statistic. Usually takes a good and long drive.





3JACK

 

[birdie_man]

Looks pretty close to me Richie.

More detailed! (you did expand on #2 quite a lot)

I like all of it anyhow.

Sounds like they are rightfully the Top Stats.

 

[mjstrong]

I actually look at it a bit differently.

1. GIR = ballstriking statistic. Requires good driving, good iron play and ability to hit shots out of tough lies on the approach shot.

3JACK

I think it also relies on target selection (both off the tee for positioning, and into the green). Some ball strikers choose shots above their ability and might miss the green, even though their execution was not that bad.

More players should aim 15 feet away from the pin towards the centre of the green (instead of taking dead aim all the time). They'd see a much higher GIR rate, and probably make more birdies, not less, as they may be assuming...

 

[Richie3Jack]

I think it also relies on target selection (both off the tee for positioning, and into the green). Some ball strikers choose shots above their ability and might miss the green, even though their execution was not that bad.

More players should aim 15 feet away from the pin towards the centre of the green (instead of taking dead aim all the time). They'd see a much higher GIR rate, and probably make more birdies, not less, as they may be assuming...

I absolutely agree. I started to figure out that if I hit 14 greens, that's when my likelihood of shooting under par goes way and so does the likelihood of shooting in the 60's. In the past I would sometimes think that I HAD TO make birdies and shoot at the pins even when they were in tough pin placements with trouble near the pin. So now I am more likely to just hit it to about 20 feet and see if I can make a 20-footer.





3JACK

 

[birdie_man]

I like it.

Good show chaps.

 

[cmartingolf]

I could always drive it well and often even 300+ with a leaky driver swing.

Long iron sitting up no problem.

Shorter iron? Wedge? Pure crapola. (lie didn't matter)

I guess the thing with irons is you have to hit down on em. But too much and your d-plane gets adjusted too far inside-out.

And on the other side of it, if you add too much loft to a wedge you're done. (easier to get away with it with driver)

Unless you have a slice, flip, or hook, I've found it a very good idea, as Brian and the MGA guys have said, to seek the center of The Matrix (straight ballflight) with min. downward strike...then learn to hit shots.

My flippy swing did hit it straight and needless to say there was little downward strike. But that's with a flip which is not a desireable mechanic in itself.

I've had to find "the center" with min. downward one more time since. (since being put through the NSA/Flipper, NHA, SD ringer)

Man, irons are tough no doubt.

Esp. when you need to be able to hit other clubs too. (often the same swing doesn't always work through the bag)

Looking pretty promising ATM though.

Yeah, the more "down" you hit the more left you aim. While I did that anyway, it took this forum and Brian's help to add certainty.

Once you know where the sweet spot is in your hands (few do) you can have confidence in flighting irons as needed.

While no two swings are alike; each club seems to have its own optimal swing!

 

[birdie_man]

While no two swings are alike; each club seems to have its own optimal swing!

Man it is crazy.

I am not into specific clubs (yet) but in theory if you wanted to hit specific shots through the bag I suppose you would have to? (unsure of practicality but interesting theory at minimum)

i.e. If you had to adjust a robot golfer (i.e. Robocop) and input different "settings", for different clubs, to hit specific shots.

Nowadays I care much less than I did about making lots of adjustments to hit different shots. But I still try not to adjust grip and steepness of shoulder turn. (just seems wrong to me for some reason)

...

I always struggled SO much with being able to hit irons/wedges as good as drivers/long irons.

(that I wasn't bent over enough and had my hands too high didn't help either)

"Find the middle of The Matrix. (straight) Then learn to hit shots."

"Minimal downward hit. Work from there."

Gold!!

Not there yet but gettin there and it simplifies things for sure.