How good is the worst putter on tour?

[jeffreycharris]

If they played at my local course would I think they were unbelievable? Or, would it be more like, "yeah, he rolls it well."

I know a couple of guys who can really putt, especially from inside 10ft, would they be close, or would it be no contest?

Are the one or two really good putters at the local course, anywhere in the neighborhood?

One more question. At the tour level, is it essentially a putting contest?

 

[tongzilla]

The worst putter still makes about 1.85 putts per GIR and about 30 putts per round.

 

[curtisj76]

And those aren't your local 9 hole greens either. Some of those lag putts are from crazy lengths!

 

[d0n]

Speaking of worst/best putters, when is that dang Manzella Putting Matrix coming out?

Whoops look like this very question was just asked in another current putting thread... Still a good question.

 

[Robbohank]

And those aren't your local 9 hole greens either. Some of those lag putts are from crazy lengths!

You're right about them not putting on "my local greens". I'd love to see some tour pros putt on 8-stimping, GRAINY (to the point of the hole is no longer a circle by noon), and in general, imperfect surfaces. Oh yea..... they don't get to use a topographical map of the green their caddy spent one day creating either.

No doubt they'd probably still putt pretty well, but I think there would be far fewer of those 12-to-25 footers going in that they make so many of (or at least those on the telecast seem to).

 

[holeout]

You're right about them not putting on "my local greens". I'd love to see some tour pros putt on 8-stimping, GRAINY (to the point of the hole is no longer a circle by noon), and in general, imperfect surfaces. Oh yea..... they don't get to use a topographical map of the green their caddy spent one day creating either.

No doubt they'd probably still putt pretty well, but I think there would be far fewer of those 12-to-25 footers going in that they make so many of (or at least those on the telecast seem to).

In contrast, I'd like to see a 0-7 handicap try and putt on greens stimping 11 at the slowest. Good luck trying to sniff sub-30 putts per round.

 

[cmartingolf]

They would putt well on the local muni.

It would be so short, they would wedge the course to death and hit mid-irons to all the five pars.

They'd make their share and their putts per round would be in the high 20's.

 

[Notorious B.E.N.]

The worst putters on tour are probably putting from closer to the hole too. Or I wouldn't

think they'd be on tour, no? So their 30 putts a round would be higher if they were putting

from where, say, Brandt Snedeker putts from. Joe Durant comes to mind.

 

[Kevin Shields]

IMO, the worst putter on tour would still impress the hell out of you no matter where he was putting. Now the worst on the LPGA....another story.

 

[Richie3Jack]

IMO, the worst putter on tour would still impress the hell out of you no matter where he was putting. Now the worst on the LPGA....another story.

I've seen Mac O'Grady and Gary McCord putt. It's actually pretty brutal to watch. There's actually been studies done that show a 20% increase in putts made, be it a PGA Tour Pro or a hacker putting on tour greens compared to the average muni. And then the pros have the luxury of having the greens mapped out for them. Combine those factors and the tour pros have a sizeable advantage over the regular amateur.

By in large, tour pros are amazing putters and even the poor ones will sink a ton of putts. But there are some guys that are not that good on the dance floor.



3JACK

 

[jeffreycharris]

Interesting post Richie3jack. I have an uncle who's a good player (really good putter) and used to play often with a current member of the Champion's Tour. Before this guy made it to the champions tour, my uncle said he wasn't a good putter. But after making it on tour, his putting has really improved. My uncle thinks it's because the greens are usually in great shape and run at consistent speeds most weeks. Maybe he's got a point?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i have been able to prove via my own golfing statistic and UN-scientific web forum polls that when you play on better courses that are better maintained two things happen:

1) You drive it further
2) You sink more putts

You drive it further because the fairways are cut shorter usually and are generally firmer; which is also why you tend to take shallower divots at those courses.

You putt better because in most cases the greens are kept up nicer and roll much truer even if they are SLIGHTLY more difficult to putt on.

 

[Robbohank]

I assure you the condition of the surface is a BIG factor. Speed is speed..... but the trueness of the surface makes a HUGE difference. Tour pro's might putt just fine on "muni" surfaces.... but anyone that thinks a good muni player won't putt better on the conditions the tour players have week in and week out is kidding themselves..... or they don't play the public courses that I do.

I've played with mini-tour and Champions Tour players who just about pull their hair out putting on greens that to me are "the norm". In fact their complaining over "how can you guys putt on these things" can get downright annoying. Hell... we do it every weekend!!

Robbo

 

[Kevin Shields]

I've seen Mac O'Grady and Gary McCord putt. It's actually pretty brutal to watch. There's actually been studies done that show a 20% increase in putts made, be it a PGA Tour Pro or a hacker putting on tour greens compared to the average muni. And then the pros have the luxury of having the greens mapped out for them. Combine those factors and the tour pros have a sizeable advantage over the regular amateur.

By in large, tour pros are amazing putters and even the poor ones will sink a ton of putts. But there are some guys that are not that good on the dance floor.



3JACK

With all due respect, those two guys arent at all relevant to this discussion. I guarantee you there isnt one mediocre putter on tour TODAY. You cannot survive on tour without being a fantastic putter. And I dont want to hear about good greens and caddie reads....thats all part of it out there.

The worst quarterback in all of the NFL (third stringers too) would put on a mesmerizing throwing clinic.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I assure you the condition of the surface is a BIG factor. Speed is speed..... but the trueness of the surface makes a HUGE difference. Tour pro's might putt just fine on "muni" surfaces.... but anyone that thinks a good muni player won't putt better on the conditions the tour players have week in and week out is kidding themselves..... or they don't play the public courses that I do.

I've played with mini-tour and Champions Tour players who just about pull their hair out putting on greens that to me are "the norm". In fact their complaining over "how can you guys putt on these things" can get downright annoying. Hell... we do it every weekend!!

Robbo

Whats with all these references to mini tour players and over the hill ex tour player teachers? You guys are in fantasy land if you think there is one guy on tour....right now....that isnt in the top .00001% of world putters.

BTW, the rough cup edges and slower speed of a muni more than offset the smoothness of a tour green. Most would poop themselves at the sight of a 12stimp undulating tour green with razor sharp egdes.

Did I mention the Steelers are going to POUND those women in baby blue tomorrow (off topic)?

 

[puttmaster]

Since putting is the strength of my game, nothing is more enjoyable than playing tour site courses. The better the green conditions and the faster the greens -- the better. You find out very quickly how pure your stroke is for any given day. Just don't give me any Sunday pin placements!

To answer the question posed by the OP, I'd say the worst putter on tour would be among the best putters that most amateurs had ever played against.

 

[Robbohank]

Whats with all these references to mini tour players and over the hill ex tour player teachers? You guys are in fantasy land if you think there is one guy on tour....right now....that isnt in the top .00001% of world putters.

BTW, the rough cup edges and slower speed of a muni more than offset the smoothness of a tour green. Most would poop themselves at the sight of a 12stimp undulating tour green with razor sharp egdes.

Did I mention the Steelers are going to POUND those women in baby blue tomorrow (off topic)?

Sorry Kev.... I'm tired of hearing how the finest manicured putting surfaces in the world running fast are making it more difficult to make putts. Too many of you guys have lost touch with the real world of public golf. Where did this sudden disadvantage of "fast" greens come from?? Razor sharp edge cups now don't allow more putts to enter than ragged edged cups with scuff marks all around??? Please.... I never said pro's weren't great putters, but please don't try and tell me it's DESPITE the horribly fast smooth greens they're forced to putt on!

Have you ever seen these guys putt on "regular" greens? I bet there isn't a guy playing in Hawaii this week that has putted on less than perfect greens in the last 5 years and I bet if they did they'd be having a #*$%-fit! I've seen what it takes to get them complaining when it comes to course conditions and it's never because of slow speeds and rough cup edges.

 

[Richie3Jack]

With all due respect, those two guys arent at all relevant to this discussion. I guarantee you there isnt one mediocre putter on tour TODAY. You cannot survive on tour without being a fantastic putter. And I dont want to hear about good greens and caddie reads....thats all part of it out there.

I've played on mini-tours (and college) with guys who are now on the PGA Tour and there were a few of them in my experience that were not a fantastic putters. In fact, far from it.

There's a lot of fantastic putters out there on tour, but there's quite a few that are so-so and just limit their three putts or they'll get those occasional rounds where they really are on fire with the flatstick and then go back to so-so putting.

Saying that all of the PGA Tour guys are fantastic putters is like saying that they are all great ballstrikers or they are all long off the tee or they are all great bunker players or they are all fantastic wedge players. From my experience, that's just not always true.




3JACK

 

[Richie3Jack]

Have you ever seen these guys putt on "regular" greens? I bet there isn't a guy playing in Hawaii this week that has putted on less than perfect greens in the last 5 years and I bet if they did they'd be having a #*$%-fit! I've seen what it takes to get them complaining when it comes to course conditions and it's never because of slow speeds and rough cup edges.

I've seen Tour players putt on absolutely awful greens, by any standards. About 10 years ago I was playing in an Open Qualifier, surrounded by tour pros and the greens were horrendous. And it wasn't a coincidence that the scores were high and there were not many putts being made.

But your are right, they did complain. (Although rightfully so, IMO)

I used to go to watch the old BC Open every year and the course was usually in decent shape by your regular golfer's standards, but the Tour pros complained left and right about the course.



3JACK

 

[Kevin Shields]

Hey, what can I say, I disagree. I will concede though that it is all relative to each individual what is and isnt a good putter. But I assure you, there are no so so putters or ball strikers on tour and if there are, its one and done. They were Q-School sneaker throughers.