Hello im currently trying to shallow out mt AoA with my irons. I really like to compress the ball, but im guilty of over doing it, i always get ball first contact, and my distance control is pretty good, but my divots are very deep, and its got to the point that i have come close to snapping a few shafts. The thing is when i do shallow things out i always take it fat and while i get the smaller shallow divot it always occurs before the ball, this is not a result of getting too far inside. I would love to find out why this happens, any advice or drills would be greatly appreciated thanks guys.
How to Shallow Angle of Attack
- Thread starter gailfcno
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May I interject another idea here? Perhaps low point control is involved.
I wish the Manz team would help on this, as I think adjusting AoA and low point is a tremendous area that golfers need help with.
Consider the following diagram.
You can ignore the dark blue line. Your current strike is the red line, going quite deep. The other three lines have similar angles of attack. If you just took you regular strike and flattened the angle of attack you'd get the cyan line, and hit behind the ball. But if you could reduce the downwardness that the clubhead goes but using that new angle of attack and your original setup, you could be on the magenta line. Or the other choice would be to still go just as deep as originally but with the low point way forward, but personally I doubt that would be a better approach.
I wish the Manz team would help on this, as I think adjusting AoA and low point is a tremendous area that golfers need help with.
Consider the following diagram.
You can ignore the dark blue line. Your current strike is the red line, going quite deep. The other three lines have similar angles of attack. If you just took you regular strike and flattened the angle of attack you'd get the cyan line, and hit behind the ball. But if you could reduce the downwardness that the clubhead goes but using that new angle of attack and your original setup, you could be on the magenta line. Or the other choice would be to still go just as deep as originally but with the low point way forward, but personally I doubt that would be a better approach.
lia41985
New member
This is a nice illustration and a helpful explanation but there's an assumption built into it about where low point is. That could spoil your analysis but the effort to make the illustration and explain it is much appreciated!May I interject another idea here? Perhaps low point control is involved.
I wish the Manz team would help on this, as I think adjusting AoA and low point is a tremendous area that golfers need help with.
Consider the following diagram.
You can ignore the dark blue line. Your current strike is the red line, going quite deep. The other three lines have similar angles of attack. If you just took you regular strike and flattened the angle of attack you'd get the cyan line, and hit behind the ball. But if you could reduce the downwardness that the clubhead goes but using that new angle of attack and your original setup, you could be on the magenta line. Or the other choice would be to still go just as deep as originally but with the low point way forward, but personally I doubt that would be a better approach.
lia41985
New member
I think a good backswing will involve a blending of the following: a step on the right foot, a pull back of the club and left shoulder along with any so-called "centers", and a turning of "the body" (generic, I know; shoulders and hips are turning, knees are turning, arms are rotating, etc.). A good golf swing will have continuity such that you'll have what many term a "counterfall" that allows you to run up into the left leg and hip while bringing your torso more "forward", that are then "stabilized" (i.e. segmental stability; after you've "put" your low point in the "right" place for the selected shot) by the sitting into the left "side". You want to snap your kinetic chain by "jumping"--this jump will involve, at the very least, left knee extension and back extension. Here's Sean Foley talking about the run up and jump: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI0YAXWECw0#t=1m39s
Stand straight up with your spine "neutral". Now pretend I want to put a big ol' round pillow in your lower back--to make it fit you're going to have to extend the lumbar spine. That's back extension. That back extension, paired with side bend (axis tilt) wlll help lay the face back but also shallow out the angle of attack.
I would say that one of the reasons why Ogilvy takes shallow divots or merely just seemingly brushes the ground (as in the video I posted) is because of the way he incorporates back extension as a component.
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
All bets are off if these are actually steep divots from an early releaser/flipper who cheats and slides to get ball first contact. Sounds like it to me because attempts to shallow out causes scruffy fat shots from the long right arm.
Jon Hardesty
New
Take out any slack of the left side of the body...left shoulder up the plane more than you think you should early along with straightening the left leg earlier than you think you should. ie...THE JUMP!
johnnymarlboro
New
I saw it before you took it down. Your swing looks great man, don't be ashamed at all! Besides, I don't believe anyone around here would have anything other then constructive criticism anyways.
I thought the poster asked a simple question how to shallow out the downswing not- step on the rt foot,counterfall,runup,snap the chain,extend the back,finding low point. Holy shi@#$*t your gonna put this poor guy in the looney house!
DONT OVER TEACH - these terms are never mentioned in interviews by players . Whens the the last time Tiger talked about his counterfall and his chain snapped or he had a bad low point day?
DONT OVER TEACH - these terms are never mentioned in interviews by players . Whens the the last time Tiger talked about his counterfall and his chain snapped or he had a bad low point day?
lia41985
New member
So what do you suggest, siksta? He's asking a "simple" question and you've only offered a criticism of the answers given. I know I don't appreciate that considering the effort (both in time and thought) that I've put into helping our friend from Ireland.
lia41985
New member
Kevin,
Could you please explain what you mean by cheat and slide?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
WHOA!!!
Angle of Attack is simply where you hit the ball on the arc.
At the bottom—0°
On the way down—negative X°
On the way up—positive X°
This is NOT a plane angle thing.
Angle of Attack is simply where you hit the ball on the arc.
At the bottom—0°
On the way down—negative X°
On the way up—positive X°
This is NOT a plane angle thing.
BrendanC
New
Guilty.
Though I was never a scooper or flipper. In my case, I had a big slide of the upper body forward, combined with a big roll of the shoulders in the downswing, to avoid hitting behind the ball (cause: failure to uncock wrists properly in downswing) and a weird finish with my left elbow low and pointing sideways.
It's usually a chicken or egg type of thing. Players either lunge forward and then make a last ditch effort to both square up the face and find the bottom of the ball, or an early uncocking of the wrist and straigtening of the right arm has the club bottoming out behind the ball...so you lunge forward. You choose.
Thank you for asking this questions and the answers. I have been working on this trying to figure it out in my own swing and was waiting for some of this input. It follows with what I have been working on:
Trying to put these together for the downswing: axis tilt(takes out slack in left side); left shoulder up and back(to stay on plane--see throw the drunk off); upper body and head back behind the ball; hands in front of the shaft; and "jump".
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