How to Teach Someone who Won't Give up the Strong Grip

[fronesis]

I'm not a real golf instructor, but since I am a teacher in real life and 25 year diligent student of golf, I have given golf lessons to a few people over the years. Usually I either taught very new golfers - and I found it was very easy to get them into some better positions and find out what it means to compress a ball - or a gave some small lessons to players that were already pretty good.

But for the past month I've been working with a golfer who can already break 90 and I think has the natural ability to break 80 fairly quickly. He makes a decent pass at the ball, is young and flexible and fairly athletic.

He has a very strong grip and he address the ball with the face very closed. He then makes a very stiff, all-arm-no-turn swing (he even waggles like a hockey player - holding both arms out stiffly and sweeping back and forth). That is, he has less shoulder turn than he should and almost NO hip turn. He hits through and up on the ball (he tees a 3 wood higher than I tee a driver) with his arms, leading to a normal shot that's a bit of a pull. His misses are tops and the occasional hook. Both are easy to diagnose: he hooks whenever he doesn't open the face enough from that super-closed setup position; he tops it because he has almost no down and out in his swing.

I started with the grip, planning to then add some NSA components. If you turned his hands to a neutral position, he'd have the clubface closed 50 degrees. So I taught him the grip and a bit of setup, sent him Brian's grip PDF, and talked it out with him.

3 weeks later he is addressing the ball with the clubfaced closed 10 to 15 degrees and his hands turned 30 degrees (or more!) over to the right. And he thought he was using the grip I taught him. He also says adamantly that he wants to change, to learn, to get better, to break 80. So it's not that he's just ignoring me, but he's not even close on taking the grip I taught him.

So I feel like I have two options:

1. Find some way to get him to take a proper grip. I feel like I've completely failed as a teacher here, as I've worked with him on this for hours and hours and when he gets to the course he is NOWHERE NEAR a neutral grip.

2. Admit that he just won't feel comfortable gripping the club that way, and then go on to teach him with the grip he already has.

No matter what, I know he needs to learn how to make a better backswing, to put him in a position to hit the ball with some forward shaft lean, to apply force across the shaft and hit down on the ball. Right now he takes no divots and is nowhere near a proper impact position.

But I don't know much about how to TEACH from a such a strong grip, since all my self-teaching has been from a weak or neutral grip. (I did have a strong grip myself in the past, but I felt like it was precisely what kept me from learning how to square the clubface). I assume I want him to learn howto cock the left wrist, helping him to make a better turn on the backswing, and then teach him how to hold off on the downswing while still hitting the ball on the way down

So...

Is there a way to make him grip it right?
OR
Should I let him stick with this grip, and if so, then what?

thanks all!

 

[detonum]

The reason he goes back to the stronger grip is because he hasn't learned how to square the clubface with a weaker grip. I'd just tell him to practice NSA components like twistaway, full swivel, etc. with a weaker grip. A better backswing turn will propably help him too. Perhaps a preshot routine where he checks left wrist and clubface alignment, and monitors that he doesn't regrip the club in the takeaway.

If he isn't committed to that, COAFF treatment would propably help him the most.

 

[fronesis]

The reason he goes back to the stronger grip is because he hasn't learned how to square the clubface with a weaker grip. I'd just tell him to practice NSA components like twistaway, full swivel, etc. with a weaker grip. A better backswing turn will propably help him too. Perhaps a preshot routine where he checks left wrist and clubface alignment, and monitors that he doesn't regrip the club in the takeaway.

I really appreciate the response. I do.

But that's EXACTLY what I was trying to work on. My logic was exactly yours: he needs to learn how to square the clubface, so he needs to start with a neutral grip, and then we can add some NSA components, build a better backswing and go from there.

But you can't even think about twistaway and wedding ring up until you have a neutral or at least close to neutral grip. And he won't take that grip, no matter what I try. If you did twistaway (and held the twist) with his current grip, he would hit himself in the left foot.

Oh, and I taught him how to check his flat left wrist to correspond with the square clubface (straight from Brian) but he would always hold the club at an angle or otherwise manipulate the setup so that it didn't do him any good. It was odd, actually: I would demonstrate as brian does - arm hand and club all level and on one plane, with left wrist cocked enough so that the arm and club were at almost a right angle to one another. Then he would stick out his arm and the club with them both almost lined up, only he would have both on a steep angle pointing up at the sky.

As I said, I'm proving myself to be a pretty awful teacher here!

If he isn't committed to that, COAFF treatment would propably help him the most.

Yes, I might want to go back and teach COFF. I gave my dad a little confessions lesson last month and it took 3 strokes off his game!

 

[jeffreycharris]

I have heard Brian say, that to fix a flipper, he takes their reward for flipping away. . .could you do the same with his strong grip? Maybe get him hooking it off the planet with his strong grip?

I am certainly not a golf teacher, just a thought. Good luck.

 

[Burner]

1. Find some way to get him to take a proper grip. I feel like I've completely failed as a teacher here, as I've worked with him on this for hours and hours and when he gets to the course he is NOWHERE NEAR a neutral grip.

2. Admit that he just won't feel comfortable gripping the club that way, and then go on to teach him with the grip he already has.


Is there a way to make him grip it right?


thanks all!

Let him grip it as he likes and address his ball - then

attach this to his club face and show him just how far left he is going.

Then, just turn the club shaft in his hands until he can see the pointer facing where it should.

If, following that, he fails to see, recognise, accept and change give up on the idiot.

The only barrier to learning is a mule headed reluctance to change.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Once upon a time....

Nowadays, with a "I just have to have a strong gripper," and for those I choose to MAKE THEM grip it stronger (Yes, I do that quite a bit, believe it or not), I do the following:

Get the clubface in a 90° to the plane position at the top, with whatever hand motion is needed (often left thumb DEAD UNDER the shaft).

DO the same at all points to and through the ball, including the fast left wrist bend needed to have normal clubface rotation through the ball.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The world needs ditch diggers too.....

Some people just dont want to change. Thats the reality. Look at Brian's you tube video on the flat left wrist. He had a guy that just didnt want to do it.

 

[btp]

I would let him keep his grip. Hook grip + slice swing can be decent.

 

[Shot Limit]

I would let him keep his grip. Hook grip + slice swing can be decent.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[btp]

If he hits it good with a strong grip, then work on getting him more consistent. Change his grip and he will probably hit it right to right.

Is a strong grip wrong, LOL. A neutral grip can be wrong for some people.

 

[fronesis]

Get the clubface in a 90° to the plane position at the top, with whatever hand motion is needed (often left thumb DEAD UNDER the shaft).

DO the same at all points to and through the ball, including the fast left wrist bend needed to have normal clubface rotation through the ball.

Thanks, Brian. Just to clarify: when you say 90 degrees to the plane, you mean get him to open the club 90 degrees from a square address position to the top of the backswing - so that at the top the club is laying flat on the plane, right?

This makes a lot of sense, since if I got him in this top of backswing position he'd have to learn to rotate the face closed and monitor the clubface in some way.

I think the biggest hurdle may be in getting him to address the ball with teh clubface square - but letting him STRENGTHEN his grip will help I think, probably a lot.

...

And to btp: I wouldn't say he "hits it good" right now. Until he learns to make a better turn and hit down on the ball, he'll never break 80 consistently. Yes, he has enough natural talent to use his current swing and hit a 3 wood 240 yards, but until he can pivot properly and rotate the clubface, there isn't anything there to make more consistent.