I'd teach you to rotate your #3 pressure point BACK behind the sweetspot.

[Wolfman]

"But, with the better, more distinct change-of-direction that the LAGGING CLUBHEAD TAKEAWAY usually helps create, the SWEETSPOT tends to move more toward open for a variety of reasons.

Staying behind it, or getting behind it (at some point) IS the answer, and this can be accomplished with a stronger grip, but if your grip is fine, then I'd teach you to rotate your #3 pressure point BACK behind the sweetspot."

I've been experimenting with Lagging clubhead takeaway since I'm one of those golfers that likes to swing too far to the right. So far, I'm hitting it well. BUT, when it starts to go bad, I'd like to know what this means:


"I'd teach you to rotate your #3 pressure point BACK behind the sweetspot."

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

depends where he meant in the swing. Being BEHIND the sweetsopt is a good thing. Being under is not.

btw, a lagging clubhead takeaway is good for people who swing out to the right a lot of times because it gets the backswing more out and up and not so low and in.

 

[Wolfman]

As you know

I'm one of those golfers that need more up and out!

"What" is behind the sweetspot - when this is referenced?

 

[fronesis]

If I understand what Brian is saying in the quotes above, then it goes like this:

1. With an NSA type pattern, the idea is to never really get the #3PP under the sweetspot. The twistaway limits the amount of rotation in the backswing - rotation that opens the clubface, and that moves the #3PP underneath the sweetspot rather than 'behind' or, as Brian often says 'on top of it'.

2. Switching to a lagging takeaway (for whatever reason, e.g. to minimise swinging right) often leads to more rotation on the backswing, such that - at SOME POINT - one has moved the #3 PP UNDER the sweetspot. This can create an open clubface problem.

3. The solution to the problem is to teach the player to rotate so that the #3 PP gets back behind or on top of the sweetspot, rather than under it.

Wolfman, are you asking, in your second post, what the #3 pressure point is? It's the pressure created between the right index finger knuckle of the 'trigger finger' in a (Manzella) neutral grip.

 

[pecky987]

If I understand what Brian is saying in the quotes above, then it goes like this:

1. With an NSA type pattern, the idea is to never really get the #3PP under the sweetspot. The twistaway limits the amount of rotation in the backswing - rotation that opens the clubface, and that moves the #3PP underneath the sweetspot rather than 'behind' or, as Brian often says 'on top of it'.

2. Switching to a lagging takeaway (for whatever reason, e.g. to minimise swinging right) often leads to more rotation on the backswing, such that - at SOME POINT - one has moved the #3 PP UNDER the sweetspot. This can create an open clubface problem.

3. The solution to the problem is to teach the player to rotate so that the #3 PP gets back behind or on top of the sweetspot, rather than under it.

Wolfman, are you asking, in your second post, what the #3 pressure point is? It's the pressure created between the right index finger knuckle of the 'trigger finger' in a (Manzella) neutral grip.

well any grip really

 

[fronesis]

well any grip really

Right, I guess it makes sense that you would have a PP#3 on any grip.

But in my old strong grip, the right knuckle of my index finger was underneath the club and right next to my middle finger. So if I HAD a PP#3, it certainly wasn't one I could MONITOR.

 

[Wolfman]

Not what, but where

"2. Switching to a lagging takeaway (for whatever reason, e.g. to minimise swinging right) often leads to more rotation on the backswing, such that - at SOME POINT - one has moved the #3 PP UNDER the sweetspot. This can create an open clubface problem.

3. The solution to the problem is to teach the player to rotate so that the #3 PP gets back behind or on top of the sweetspot, rather than under it."

I believe this answers my question. Thanks Fronesis

 

[Brian Manzella]

LCT

The "Lagging Clubhead Takeaway,"which was employed by every top player until the 1930's, has a tendency—due to the increase FLOAT LOADING effect, to also have the golfer have more PURE, in the plane of the left arm, wrist cock.

Unless you are doing something really goofy, in the plane of the left arm wrist cock, will tend for the club face to rotate toward the SWING PLANE, opening the clubface to the plane, making the right forefinger hook pad—the "#3 Pressure Point"—more UNDER the grip (relative to the plane and ball) then behind it.

If you know how to rotate this pressure point behind the sweetspot, you NEVER need to try to.

But, most people need to learn to.

And I teach them to.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Unless you are doing something really goofy, in the plane of the left arm wrist cock, will tend for the club face to rotate toward the SWING PLANE, opening the clubface to the plane, making the right forefinger hook pad—the "#3 Pressure Point"—more UNDER the grip (relative to the plane and ball) then behind it.

I recently figured this out in my own swing - the PP3 being more "under" and I thought I was doing something wrong.

I need to trust my instincts more.....

 

[Wolfman]

My feel

As I get more used to this lagging clubhead takeaway (LCT), I feel like I'm also doing some twistaway. And I'm starting to feel that #3 pressure point behind the shaft all the way into the ball.

Actually started hitting a soft draw on purpose for the first time in my life, but normally hitting it straight as a string with LCT. My miss has always been a low duck hook (ala the plane and laser thread).

LCT has me taking the club back more up and out, adding a little twistaway, and directing PP#3 to low point and keeping me from getting underplane and swinging too far to the right.

2 years and lots of balls into the horse pasture, lots of time here, 2 lessons with Jim, some phone time with Brian - maybe I've finally learned something!

Could it really be?