impact fix

[dannyc]

hey everyone...

i was wondering if anyone knew or cared to discuss the concept of impact fix...specifically, what are the pros/cons of gripping the club at fix, and what are the pros/cons of starting the swing from fix.

the reason i ask is because my hands seem better oriented at impact when i grip the club this way. for some reason when i grip the club at waist high (parallel to the ground) or at adjusted address, the relationship between my hands and the clubface seems to change by the time i get to impact.

thanks,
danny c

 

[hcw]

All Pros (at least for me

hey everyone...

i was wondering if anyone knew or cared to discuss the concept of impact fix...specifically, what are the pros/cons of gripping the club at fix, and what are the pros/cons of starting the swing from fix.

the reason i ask is because my hands seem better oriented at impact when i grip the club this way. for some reason when i grip the club at waist high (parallel to the ground) or at adjusted address, the relationship between my hands and the clubface seems to change by the time i get to impact.

thanks,
danny c

i believe both ben doyle and TGM state that the grip definitely should be taken at impact fix for just the reasons you stated above...also, starting from impact fix is definitely an option in TGM...and although i know it is not preferred by BM for most folks, i without a doubt do better starting from impact fix and that is really the only pro/con that matters for any given player imho....

-hcw

 

[Seanmx]

Impact Hands at Address

i believe both ben doyle and TGM state that the grip definitely should be taken at impact fix for just the reasons you stated above...also, starting from impact fix is definitely an option in TGM...and although i know it is not preferred by BM for most folks, i without a doubt do better starting from impact fix and that is really the only pro/con that matters for any given player imho....

-hcw

In my case I know that impact hands at address work much for me than "adjusted address" Even with the driver I set up with my hands slightly in front of the ball.

 

[JeffM]

Danny

The relationship between the hands and clubface will obviously differ between the address position and the impact position, but I cannot understand why it should change one's approach to gripping a club. I think that one should grip the club before one actually stands in front of the ball. If one adopts a neutral grip and a square clubface alignment before one stands in front of the ball, then the clubface should be nearly square or slightly open at impact (which is desirable - considering that the clubface closes about 1-2 degrees while the clubface remains in contact with the ball).

Jeff.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Danny

The relationship between the hands and clubface will obviously differ between the address position and the impact position, but I cannot understand why it should change one's approach to gripping a club. I think that one should grip the club before one actually stands in front of the ball. If one adopts a neutral grip and a square clubface alignment before one stands in front of the ball, then the clubface should be nearly square or slightly open at impact (which is desirable - considering that the clubface closes about 1-2 degrees while the clubface remains in contact with the ball).

Jeff.

ClubFace Closes 1-2 Degrees in 5 ten thousands of a second????? Wow....

 

[dannyc]

Jeff,

that makes perfect sense, but for me it doesn't seem to translate in the real world...
if i take my grip from behind the ball, then got to address, forward press to fix, then go back to adjusted, during my swing my hands seem to twist a little (or somehow change) so that when i get back to the ball, the clubface is not square(ish)...it is generally more closed.
but, by taking them at fix...they somehow feel more "connected" and "solidly" on the club, and i know i just have to bring them back there...
does that make any sense?

in other words,
grip at adjust or behind ball = clubface too closed at impact
grip at fix = less closed

hcw,
i didn't realize ben and homer preferred this method...

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I have found that any type of posing at all is VERY DANGEROUS.

Through my teaching and my own experience, whatever you are trying to do when you "pose" anything your brain is going to do it's VERY BEST as duplicating that.

That's why i always cringe when i see peopling posing something that is going to make them hit it WORSE. Essentially how i feel is that your brain is "taking a picture" of that pose you're doing and it's going to try REAL hard to repeat that.

So better make sure you can pose it RIGHT else you aren't going to be really happy with the results imo

 

[dannyc]

jim,

good point - nothing will set you back like programming the brain to do it wrong.

when is say i grip the club at impact fix, i am just talking about putting the handle in front of my left foot (from bird's eye view), and then putting my hands on in the position i want them to be in at impact...left wrist flat, back of hand facing toward target, right wrist bent, etc.

you think this is potentially dangerous?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

As long as you take due care to make sure it's "around" where it should be you should be fine.

But here comes from the rub:

What if you sole the clubing perfectly on the leading edge and take your grip, essentially where the club is at, at impact BUT you don't actually get into that position...you have less foward lean. So now, for you, the face will be closed to where you just setup and you'll hit it left and not know why.Same goes for someone who ends up with MORE foward lean then when they take their grip, now they are going to leave the face open.

So you can see that even if you pose it correctly, is it posed FOR YOU?

The above is why i hate any kind of posing and like to practice more MOVEMENTS that will fall in the "general idea" of what you are trying (and should) be doing. This way the subconscious doesn't get too fixated on anything.

 

[dannyc]

jim, you wrote:

What if you sole the clubing perfectly on the leading edge and take your grip, essentially where the club is at, at impact BUT you don't actually get into that position...you have less foward lean. So now, for you, the face will be closed to where you just setup and you'll hit it left and not know why.Same goes for someone who ends up with MORE foward lean then when they take their grip, now they are going to leave the face open.

jim...
i think this is another great point...and is essentially why i have been had more success with gripping in this fashion...
i believed i am a compensated hooker with a lil' bit o' flip. i have been working on eliminating it, but it is difficult. watched and praticed concepts from cff and nsa.
so, being a player without a lot of forward shaft lean, gripping in this fashion helps me achieve a little...even if it isn't as much as what i set up with.
valid or no?

 

[hcw]

TGM and Ben Doyle ref's

hcw,
i didn't realize ben and homer preferred this method...

didn't have the book handy before...TGM 7th ed; Section 7-8. THE FIX; 2nd paragraph:
"Therefore precision alignment of the Grip can be taken only in the Impact position."

...i'm pretty sure i saw/heard ben doyle say this on a video, but i can't remember exactly where...

-hcw

 

[cmartingolf]

I see guys set up at impact all the time. Generally, it is mid to higher hdcp players. You will loose a lot of dynamics.

Learn the correct separation relationship as it relates to your grip (fix) and take that back to mid body hands. I bet you'll stress the shaft better and hit more solid shots.

 

[Dariusz J.]

OK, a simple and related question - assuming one wants to set the grip mid-body (without impact fix) - what is the best procedure to form the grip ?
- to grip the club with left hand (cupped wrist) at mid-body position
- or grip the club with left hand (flat wrist) at your left side and then bring it to the middle ?

Cheers

 

[golfbulldog]

OK, a simple and related question - assuming one wants to set the grip mid-body (without impact fix) - what is the best procedure to form the grip ?
- to grip the club with left hand (cupped wrist) at mid-body position
- or grip the club with left hand (flat wrist) at your left side and then bring it to the middle ?

Cheers

Individualise it for your self...

Take your grip at impact fix....

Move to mid body hands....

Now look carefully at your grip...

Develop your own visual markers ( knuckles , v's or whatever) but something that matters to you and you will remember....

Then just use these markers.... YOUR markers for mid body hands gripping...safe in the knowledge that they were custom designed for you, by you...when you knew that your hands were correctly placed on the club.

 

[Dariusz J.]

No, no...it's not that easy, IMO. When I grip the club with my left hand near my left hip and bring it to the middle I obtain a good neutral grip, however, the feel I got is that the end of the grip is not so firmly located under the pad....and I feel I need to regrip (read: strenghten).
OTOH, when I deliver my left hand to the middle (where the club is waiting), I usually end up with a strongish LH grip...just as cupping itself would strengthen my grip. Mind you, I usually had always too strong a grip and would like to go into the Neutral Manzella grip.

Cheers

 

[golfbulldog]

No, no...it's not that easy, IMO. When I grip the club with my left hand near my left hip and bring it to the middle I obtain a good neutral grip, however, the feel I got is that the end of the grip is not so firmly located under the pad....and I feel I need to regrip (read: strenghten).
OTOH, when I deliver my left hand to the middle (where the club is waiting), I usually end up with a strongish LH grip...just as cupping itself would strengthen my grip. Mind you, I usually had always too strong a grip and would like to go into the Neutral Manzella grip.

Cheers

So you have a natural tendency to a stronger grip...that feels better to you...you go to impact fix and take a grip there which you know to be biomechanically better....and then you come back to mid body hands.... and it feels loose...

Well it is bound to feel different..if loose is the feeling - why not increase grip pressure in last 3 fingers of left hand rather than turn the left hand into a stronger position??

Or vary the thickness of your grips to accomodate the loose feel with the correct left hand alignment...??

 

[Brian Manzella]

That's why....

You should take your LEFT HAND GRIP with the clubshaft left of your left leg.

Ideally.

Because...it works best for the majority of golfers.

What about taking it at impact fix? ​

If that works for you. But to me, I don't see and good players do it, so since I live and work in the REAL WORLD, I find REAL WORLD SOLUTIONS.

Impact hands vs. Address hands at address?​

I prefer Address (Mid-Body) hands 90% of the time for my students.

But not all of the time.

I could do an hour on the grip and impact fix and all of that...maybe I will.

 

[Bigwill]

You should take your LEFT HAND GRIP with the clubshaft left of your left leg.

Ideally.

Because...it works best for the majority of golfers.

What about taking it at impact fix? ​

If that works for you. But to me, I don't see and good players do it, so since I live and work in the REAL WORLD, I find REAL WORLD SOLUTIONS.

Impact hands vs. Address hands at address?​

I prefer Address (Mid-Body) hands 90% of the time for my students.

But not all of the time.

I could do an hour on the grip and impact fix and all of that...maybe I will.

Are the hands supposed to be lower at mid-body address than they are at impact?

 

[Dariusz J.]

Thanks, Brian !

This makes sense. When I take my LEFT HAND GRIP with the clubshaft left of your left leg, I obtain a great neutral grip. If only I could maintain this grip and get rid of necessity of regripping in the middle I'd be in heaven.

BTW, a video of yours on the subject of proper gripping would be warmly welcomed !

Cheers

 

[eddielaw]

Are the hands supposed to be lower at mid-body address than they are at impact?

Good point. Assuming some shift during the swing then probably depends on what plane you are on at impact. If on elbow plane at impact, then mid-body hands may be the same level if your right elbow is on that plane at address; otherwise, lower. If you are on the TSP at impact then mid-body hands would definitely be lower.