importance of Psychology in golf.

[davidmac00]

this great forum puts up loads of super info on swing technique,but what are the views on the mental aspects of golf(amateur and pro)?

im sure this has been covered before,so i will add my opinion for arguments sake.

i feel the correct impact alignments breed confidence in all aspects of the game,so who needs Mr B.Rot....... and co?

thanx in advance for opinions,
david mccallum.

 

[puttmad]

TBH I don't think you need much psychology once you have a good swing..
Perhaps for the guys at the top of the game, who want to squeeze every last % out of their game, but for the rest of us it's probably overkill. And besides which, who wants to get into all that Sh** anyway...It's supposed to be a FUN GAME....

 

[grs]

TBH I don't think you need much psychology once you have a good swing..
Perhaps for the guys at the top of the game, who want to squeeze every last % out of their game, but for the rest of us it's probably overkill. And besides which, who wants to get into all that Sh** anyway...It's supposed to be a FUN GAME....

I totally agree for the full swing, but for the short game I think nerves come more into play

 

[birdie_man]

I like this stuff I think it's very interesting and can be worthwhile if you do it right.

As I see it.....

I think for top players playing tournament level golf mostly.....

......and really anyone who is (or anytime when you are) primarily concerned with dealing with both EXECUTING (i.e. "pushing the button") and also managing stress and anxiety etc. (i.e. throoughout the course of a round/day).....

....I think it can be pretty important.

I think it prolly could at times also come into play for increasing enjoyment/decreasing stress (because everyone likes to feel comfortable and have fun)......and also for learning. (whether it be building habits or filtering/systematizing information to what suits you)

Having said that tho......

1. For the beginner (and a lot of people really) I think you have to say it is mostly about building skill first.......i.e. mechanics.........that is where they will make the biggest gains IMO.....or at least that is what surely should be tackled first. (for most)

i.e. for a slicer the root cause of the slice isn't mental duress........

2. There is a lot of stuff out there that is fairly sketchy if you ask me.....

...

But that doesn't negate the rest of it (i.e. the good stuff) and/or negate the value of learning about "the mental game" all together.

 

[self-mastery]

Hogan, Snead and Nicklaus would have won a lot more majors if they read 'golf is not a game of perfect.' GET REAL.

I think that all one needs in life is mental toughness. We live in a wimpy touchy feely society, so no wonder our 'athletes' need mental coaches. You either have your mechanics down or you don't.

 

[birdie_man]

WHOA this got long. Bear with me please........

Well.....haven't read it but I'll just say I wasn't talking about Golf Is A Game Of Perfect....

Anyhoo. Fair enough with all that and I know a lot of people in here prolly think that way (and that's everyone's preogative)..........but I know what I think and I think that's a huge load of horse$--t to tell you the truth.

Before I write anything else I'll let it be known that I ain't gonna profess to be any kind of expert on anything........and opinions are like you know what blah blah blah.....but I'll give my 2 CENTS anyway....

....

I don't see how it couldn't help anyone (i.e. everyone to some degree) in some way.....and never mind the right person. (i.e. "someone who lacks mental toughness"- as people would say) And I'm talking about IF you have some actual, good, helpful information. I mean- I know where you come from cause I do think a lot of it is (and really- of course a lot of it is) BEEEEEEEEE.....ESSSSSSSSS. I would go so far as to say maybe even the majority is at least questionable. (this prolly parallels golf instruction of all kinds actually)

And you mention Hogan (for one).....now- I of course didn't know Ben Hogan (maybe there's someone around who did).............but knowing what I know about him (from my POV......and IMO) I personally really doubt that such a thorough, analytical, competitive, passionate, obsessive, etc. guy like Hogan didn't at LEAST think about this stuff.

And really- I'll go out on a limb and say I would be surprised if he didn't have some kind of a little system worked out for himself. IMO.

After all those years of work and improving himself........he just ended it at "mental toughness"???

Maybe he did.......like I said I didn't know him............

....

I would bet my life that Moe Norman did tho. And I have heard he did. (and I know people who claim that he did) There were some notes supposedly of his floating around the net a while back....I remember the vast majority of it was mental. (take it for what it's worth of course but it's at least very very interesting)

You would prolly just say that's a load of crap tho and that he was a basket case anyway or something. I know he didn't make the big show but.......I also think that prolly has to be read into a bit to get the real facts straight.......

And Snead had "the yips" BAD. S.O.L. for him? "Ran out" of "mental toughness"?

....

Like I said, I do think there is a lot of BS out there.....I'm sure could agree up to that point anyhow.

Also I'll say that I don't consider myself any kind of a meek person or however you want to put it. And I DO think "toughness" is very real to some degree. The "intangables"..........the ability to motivate yourself and work off that motivation.....etc. etc. etc. It would be an injustice to rip yourself off and say it's not part of the picture. You can't deny it if you ask me.

But I also think though that this idea that "either you have it or you don't and S.O.L. to the rest of everyone" (flat-out) is just a huge crock of $--t put out there by people who wanna show everyone how tough they think they ARE.

No offence. (if you are mentally tough enough it won't bother you anyway)

It's one thing to have a lot of natural ability and to be at a POINT where your confidence (different than longterm belief in own potential I think) is flying high and all that.....then it's easy. But what do you do when/if it's low? Or when you're in a pressure-filled situation and you feel the "choke" comin on. No way to curb that extra anxiety?

And what about those who don't have it easy to begin with?

In all cases I think there is more that can be done than just "grinding it out".....or on the other side- "being patient"- or w/e. (not to say patience and perseverance are totally dismissable but...)

And esp. in golf man. To me golf's different. I'd believe the "mental toughness" thing if we're talking about in hockey (or football or w/e) more than I would with golf. In these reactive sports you can run off motivation and instincts more.....and there's no time to be in your own head anyway. You have to be "on auto".....and it's easier to get there.

....

Looking at myself, I have found "mental game" things that have improved my game and my self in general. I know I've had times where I've been a bit of a basket case- in the OCD sense and also for my own reasons. But I also am nowhere near being a wuss I know that for damn sure.

Sorry for the rant (turned into about 1000 CENTS) but it really is a great topic. I'm sure there will be lots of opinions. (that is if people want to give them....sometimes this stuff gets people pretty tight-lipped)

 

[birdie_man]

BTW re-read your post (always good after I've calmed down on my ranting a bit)......

Mechanics are of course huge too.

I would take mechanics first before any of the "mental game" stuff.....cause you could build a world-class game around riding off nothing but:

-natural aptitude
-world-class mechanics (skill).....however it's attained
-perseverance/will
-and (when it's there/it shows up) motivation (i.e. energy/momentum etc.) and confidence. (belief in your skills)

...

Yes a lot of the time people/society are too wimpy.......too lenient.......too PC.....don't put their feet down enough.....etc. But you have to strike some kind of a balance there no? I don't think you can pigeon-hole everyone or everything........it wouldn't even be fair to people.

Here comes a shot for being too "wishy-washy".....?



(I prefer to call it open-minded and/or balanced though)

And a massive political discussion ensues......ahhhhhhhhhh.............

All in good fun.....

 

[self-mastery]

My original post wasn't directed to your first post. I didn't even read your first post, but your rant did give me a bit of a headache (I lack mental toughness.)

Bob rotella has said only one thing that I see useful: "If you are going to believe in anything in this world it might as well be yourself."

What is he talking about? Confidence! I don't believe that confidence comes from having positive thoughts. A high handicap golfer will not suddenly begin to lace 1 irons through sports pyschology. Confidence in most things in life: golf, business and women comes from experience and preparation. A surge of confidence doesn't run through my veins with a 1 iron in my hands because of some sports pyschology concept, it comes from knowing that I have beaten balls 'till blisters have formed on my hands, and from the fact that I have successful hit that shot before. If I have never achieved success and lack the correct skill set to perform a specific task, salvation will not be found through applying some sort of sports pyschology tactic.

We had a long thread a few months on grinding. I see grinding as the ultimate display of mental toughness... Rolling with the punches and staying on purpose and waiting out the suckyness until you can perform the mechanics that you have practiced.

Golf isn't some esoteric journey--

I imagine that Hogan and Snead would have given Dr. Gio an atomic wedgy in the ladies room.

Snead yips....MEH... He has more tourney wins than anyone. G.O.A.T.

 

[birdie_man]

My original post wasn't directed to your first post. I didn't even read your first post, but your rant did give me a bit of a headache (I lack mental toughness.)

Haha...

I didn't think it really was but thanks for saying. I just get into this stuff. Not everyone goes about it like I do.

What is he talking about? Confidence! I don't believe that confidence comes from having positive thoughts.

Me neither. I think that's one for the junk pile frankly. (when it goes to Ned Flanders levels) All these "think positive" people have a certain point......it ain't a cure-all tho....not even close. If used like one all it is- is forced. And again, not anywhere near a cure-all. It's a by-product.

A high handicap golfer will not suddenly begin to lace 1 irons through sports pyschology.

Absolutely true.

Confidence in most things in life: golf, business and women comes from experience and preparation.

As well as knowledge and built skill.

I read this somewhere I figure it fits in well here........I'll toss it out there:

trust-> skill+knowledge+practice-> firm habits-> experience+practice-> confidence-> enthusiasm = positive self-image

A surge of confidence doesn't run through my veins with a 1 iron in my hands because of my mental imagery, it comes from knowing that I have beaten balls 'till blisters have formed on my hands, and from the fact that I have successful hit that shot before. If I have never achieved success and lack the correct skill set to perform a specific task, salvation will not be found through applying some sort of sports pyschology tactic.

You are 110% right man.

What about when the pressure gets to you tho? You've never had that and felt it was beyond your control?

Theoretical scenario: you have a case of "the yips" show up in the last few holes of the US Open. Can you only (solely and nothing else) rely on that built skill and "mental toughness"?

Did someone like Sam Snead just suddenly become a mental wuss? How about Hogan......didn't he lose his putting touch? WTF happened??? No other thing you can do but grind or accept it and "wait it out"?

We had a long thread a few months on grinding. I see grinding as the ultimate display of mental toughness... Rolling with the punches and staying on purpose and waiting out the suckyness until you can perform the mechanics that you have practiced.

It may work well enough for some (some of the time)......I just don't think that is all we are limited to.

This is a very personal thing tho.......I won't tell you how you should play and what does or doesn't work for you.

Golf isn't some esoteric journey--

I had to bust out the dictionary there.

I wouldn't ever say it was.........but I think I know what you're getting at anyhow.

I'll say- it isn't JUST some "esoteric journey."

I know you have to have fun too...........this stuff usually is pretty complicated when you get right down to it tho. I think you have to keep that in mind anytime you try to tell someone "how it is." (if you actually want to look at it from a more serious perspective)

Having said that tho........it doesn't mean AT ALL that the said complicated stuff can't be systematized so it's useable....

Like TGM.

I imagine that Hogan and Snead would have given Dr. Gio an atomic wedgy in the ladies room.

Hey believe me....I think Gio is a dork too man. I haven't learned anything memorable at all from what I've heard from him. To me it seems like the same ol repetitive mainstream recycled stuff. Dunno what makes him the goto guy on all this stuff. But it's like all of it really. (mechanics etc.)

Imagining....positive thinking......self-talk..........blah blah blah. Mental performance wouldn't even be an issue if it were that simple. (and I don't think that's as far as we can go either....i.e. settling on "as much as can be done")

Snead yips....MEH... He has more tourney wins than anyone. G.O.A.T.

Hey man......ask him if it was a "meh" when he got to the point where he felt like he was gonna puke over a 3 footer.

What's G.O.A.T.?

 

[teeithigh]

yeh that dr. gio is a panzy but hogan did have some mental tricks...one i heard about via john schlee (who played w/ him many times) was he would visualize a huge wall (100 ft. high) following him around so he would force himself to forget everything that happended before..(the previous shot) and just focus on the shot at hand.....

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

TBH I don't think you need much psychology once you have a good swing..
Perhaps for the guys at the top of the game, who want to squeeze every last % out of their game, but for the rest of us it's probably overkill. And besides which, who wants to get into all that Sh** anyway...It's supposed to be a FUN GAME....

sorry but that is absolutely wrong. When i give playing lessons or just play with students i help them save a lot of shots with changing their simple poor decision making on the course and letting their MENTAL MISTAKES ruin their round.

Setting up incorrectly, playing a hole incorrectly, trying to make miracle shots instead of playing the percentages (for you) and taking your medicine. On the course, mental game is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.

In my opinion it is what separates those guys on the nationwide tour and those on the PGA tour. Do you think those guys on the nationwide tour don't have the game to play on tour? They go low EVERY WEEK! Take a look at the scores. They just don't have it together upstairs or can't handle the pressure.

 

[self-mastery]

Setting up incorrectly, playing a hole incorrectly, trying to make miracle shots instead of playing the percentages (for you) and taking your medicine. On the course, mental game is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.

In my opinion it is what separates those guys on the nationwide tour and those on the PGA tour. Do you think those guys on the nationwide tour don't have the game to play on tour? They go low EVERY WEEK! Take a look at the scores. They just don't have it together upstairs or can't handle the pressure.

I call that 'grinding.' Playing the percentages to your favor, ask someone that plays lowstake lhe what grinding is all about...

Handling pressure--- Avg Joe doesn't have the pressure of blowing up on the back 9 of a major. If someone considers playing weekend golf stressful they need help.

I agree with mental techniques that block out distractions and help players focus, but not any wackyness. I think that people hyponotize themselves everyday and we actually become what we think about... This applys to golf, but it's not on the deep end. Take aim and fire!

 

[curtisj76]

HUGE

I think it's huge as well. The mental side is why I think golf is one of the hardest sports in the world. When I go out and throw a football I just do it. There's not 1 thing that goes through my mind, even if the receiver is 30 yards down field at a dead sprint running a post pattern. But when I get up to that pretty little white ball, just sitting there, not even doing a damn thing I start thinking about EVERYTHING!!!! Keep this straight, bend this, turn this way but don't turn that way. Oh chit there's some H2O over there, DO NOT HIT IT OVER THERE! But when I'm playing my best my head is empty. My best round ever I was so relaxed, chewing gum and whistling. Just went up to the ball and swung.

If you have ever been in a best shot (which most probably have) you know that this game can effect your coconut. The first 3 players duff there drives and then everybody is looking at you to save the team. PRESSURE

Ok, I'm done.....Peace

 

[Jared Willerson]

My father is a psychologist and says a lot of that stuff is a bunch of junk, he even says that confidence is built through hard work, not singing kum ba ya with yourself.

 

[puttmad]

sorry but that is absolutely wrong. When i give playing lessons or just play with students i help them save a lot of shots with changing their simple poor decision making on the course and letting their MENTAL MISTAKES ruin their round.

Setting up incorrectly, playing a hole incorrectly, trying to make miracle shots instead of playing the percentages (for you) and taking your medicine. On the course, mental game is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.

In my opinion it is what separates those guys on the nationwide tour and those on the PGA tour. Do you think those guys on the nationwide tour don't have the game to play on tour? They go low EVERY WEEK! Take a look at the scores. They just don't have it together upstairs or can't handle the pressure.

Jim,
If you re-read my post you will see I stated "for the average golfer".. Tour players are not in that category...
And doing the right thing on the course, shot decisions, is down to knowledge and experience, not particularly psychology...

 

[davidmac00]

thanks guys!

really good discussion going here,thanks a bunch for the input(good posts/rants BIRDIE!)keep them coming.

david mccallum.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,
If you re-read my post you will see I stated "for the average golfer".. Tour players are not in that category...
And doing the right thing on the course, shot decisions, is down to knowledge and experience, not particularly psychology...

That "knowledge" and "experience" has to do with the decision making process that occurs in your mind for some reason. In my opinion that has to do with how your brain processes information and is related to your pyschology.

 

[davidmac00]

psychology or evaluation?

That "knowledge" and "experience" has to do with the decision making process that occurs in your mind for some reason. In my opinion that has to do with how your brain processes information and is related to your pyschology.

psychology is the science of human or animal behavior.

evaluation is a diagnosis or diagnostic study of a physical or mental condition.

my opinion,if i think oh shit theres water right, thats poor psychology,

if i say,there is water right,rough left and fairway somewhere in between,thats an evaluation.

if, thro good technique im hitting it straight every time,where does psychology come in?

remember,only an opinion!
david mccallum

 

[tobell]

Psychology

Gary Player once made the comment that the next big breakthrough in golf/sports would be on the mental side not the physical. I agree that much of the pop-psy stuff is silly, however there is absolutely no doubt that the greats used their wits better than most. The greats use pressure situations to enhance their focus while most of the rest of us lose ourselves and become ungrounded and slightly confused. Hogan, Nicklaus, Player, Woods, Palmer all relish the rush of the hunt and become sharper mentally while in it.

It is interesting how many great players are avid game hunters and fisherman. I think the predator mentality is key--some very good predators include a Tiger, a Shark and a Golden Bear.

 

[dolfinosteel]

I think the " mind game" comes into play when you have established a good swing, and you hit that bad shot and now you have to work yourself out of trouble to score well.