JB Holmes
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ColinMB
New
He seems to do a lot of stuff you're not supposed to, doesn't he?
I think he's an example of finding something that works for 'you' and then trusting it... making it your own.
His 3/4 back swing is one thing, but the way he doesn't really cock his wrists is amazing to me because if you watch his first move down in slow motion.... He actually doesn't uncock his wrists at all, in fact he gets more lag!
Very aggressive swing. Short and a lot of muscle involved. I'd guess it's exactly the opposite of an 'Adam Scott' type of swing. But then again... Adam isn't doing to well right now is he?
I think he's an example of finding something that works for 'you' and then trusting it... making it your own.
His 3/4 back swing is one thing, but the way he doesn't really cock his wrists is amazing to me because if you watch his first move down in slow motion.... He actually doesn't uncock his wrists at all, in fact he gets more lag!
Very aggressive swing. Short and a lot of muscle involved. I'd guess it's exactly the opposite of an 'Adam Scott' type of swing. But then again... Adam isn't doing to well right now is he?
thefuture37
Banned
what does he do that is "wrong" according to any golf instruction? The only thing that bugs me about his style is how he shuffle steps from behind the ball and subsequently plays slow.
ColinMB
New
You quoted 'wrong'. When you quote someone, they should have at least said the word you're quoting.
I don't think he does anything 'wrong'.
I do think a lot of conventional types don't necessarily like that he has a very strong grip. I also think conventional types like to see more width in the left arm (his breaks down a tad at the top which might even be from that strong grip.)
Just to be sure we are on the same page: I don't think JB does anything 'wrong'.
I will venture that his swing appears unconventional to me at least. But not wrong. Unconventional in how he goes about blasting it... And I don't mean unconventional in a bad way, just... unconventional. Unless there are a lot of 3/4 backswing, no wrist cocking players who hit it 310 yards and I'm just missing it...
Sometimes I think of adopting his -type- of swing just because I think it allows him to engage his chest earlier in the downswing without worrying about going over the top.
I don't think he does anything 'wrong'.
I do think a lot of conventional types don't necessarily like that he has a very strong grip. I also think conventional types like to see more width in the left arm (his breaks down a tad at the top which might even be from that strong grip.)
Just to be sure we are on the same page: I don't think JB does anything 'wrong'.
I will venture that his swing appears unconventional to me at least. But not wrong. Unconventional in how he goes about blasting it... And I don't mean unconventional in a bad way, just... unconventional. Unless there are a lot of 3/4 backswing, no wrist cocking players who hit it 310 yards and I'm just missing it...
Sometimes I think of adopting his -type- of swing just because I think it allows him to engage his chest earlier in the downswing without worrying about going over the top.
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jeffgladchun
New
So many good things about that swing!
That is exactly why his swing works - he never gets flippy since he is not a handsy player and he has an aggressive pivot through the ball with his big muscles - I love the way he goes after it - he fires through the ball like no one I've ever seen (except maybe Tiger when he's trying to hit a club 110%)
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
The reason he "looks" that way is because he swings left enough
lia41985
New member
Maybe it's just my untrained eye, but to me, both Holmes and Scott have that pop-out move at the start of their backstroke and, when Scott isn't swinging to or past parallel, they both have that sort of laid off look. That's just me though.
On another note: Scott, Immelman, and Poulter all have similar looking swings to my untrained eye although Scott appears to me to let his arms get "further" from his body whereas Immelman and Poulter seem more connected looking.
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thefuture37
Banned
lia41985
New member
I couldn't have been more wrong about Holmes swing: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD_DOQ45PxU[/media]
Probably most of my previous comments as well. Holmes's downswing motion caused my confusion.
thefuture37,
How about?: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1MLhf0QOC4&feature=related[/media]
Probably most of my previous comments as well. Holmes's downswing motion caused my confusion.
thefuture37,
How about?: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1MLhf0QOC4&feature=related[/media]
their take aways are very different and they are obviously on different planes - Holmes has no wrist cock, making the club point straight up and Daly is beyond parallel with a bent left arm and a club wrap move BUT how similar did they look at impact?? Almost identical - don't matter how you get there - repeat the swing you got and square it up - thanks for the video - interesting
ColinMB
New
Yes, that's what I've been saying... Holmes has a 3/4 backswing with NO wrist cock.
1. In Playing Lessons with the Pro's: Holmes is with his instructor and states something to the effect of: "I have no wrist cock, and it works. If I actually try to add wrist cock, it screws up my swing a lot" His instructor goes on to say he gets a lot of power from his legs.
2. JB Holmes homepage shows a swing sequence which is analyzed by none other than 'Leadbetter'! Granted this is a 'made for article' looking swing but check it out:
J.B. Holmes - Official Website of PGA Golfer JB Holmes
Check out Frame 3: That left arm is definitely broken. At this point in the swing Adam scott is straight as an arrow, and usually (with driver) goes on to break parallel. BUT Look at how little cock is in his wrist at the top.
Check out Frame 4: J.B. has done NOTHING with his HANDS but drop them. In fact his hands are SO neutral, he has *increased* the angle (lag if you will) between the shaft and his wrist. Go back to Frame 3 and compare... yup, there's more cock in his down move.... I guess you might say this is the polar opposite of 'casting'... he's actually increased wrist cock.
3. I'm not a huge fan of Johnny Miller sometimes, but I happen to personally agree with his opinion on JB's backswing. He says the beauty of the short back swing is, on the way down you can 'engage' your chest much earlier without having to worry about coming over the top as much as someone who has a very long backswing. I think we at least can all agree on that one..... no?
I have rarely commented on swings on this forum to this degree, but I do when it comes to J.B. because I have studied it to death. I have.. or had a swing similar in MECHANICS. My instructor is pulling me away from it because I have hit a wall with it.
My grip is almost pure neutral now, my swing is longer, and I 'release' more. I have to admit, I think I drove it further with my shorter, chest involved, inside, strong grip move... but my irons stunk. Actually I would say at the top, my backswing was extremely similar to JB's... very similar. The big difference is his first move down is PURE GOLD. Neutral hands, and a drop inside before coming out to the ball... with great lower body acceleration. Beauty.
1. In Playing Lessons with the Pro's: Holmes is with his instructor and states something to the effect of: "I have no wrist cock, and it works. If I actually try to add wrist cock, it screws up my swing a lot" His instructor goes on to say he gets a lot of power from his legs.
2. JB Holmes homepage shows a swing sequence which is analyzed by none other than 'Leadbetter'! Granted this is a 'made for article' looking swing but check it out:
J.B. Holmes - Official Website of PGA Golfer JB Holmes
Check out Frame 3: That left arm is definitely broken. At this point in the swing Adam scott is straight as an arrow, and usually (with driver) goes on to break parallel. BUT Look at how little cock is in his wrist at the top.
Check out Frame 4: J.B. has done NOTHING with his HANDS but drop them. In fact his hands are SO neutral, he has *increased* the angle (lag if you will) between the shaft and his wrist. Go back to Frame 3 and compare... yup, there's more cock in his down move.... I guess you might say this is the polar opposite of 'casting'... he's actually increased wrist cock.
3. I'm not a huge fan of Johnny Miller sometimes, but I happen to personally agree with his opinion on JB's backswing. He says the beauty of the short back swing is, on the way down you can 'engage' your chest much earlier without having to worry about coming over the top as much as someone who has a very long backswing. I think we at least can all agree on that one..... no?
I have rarely commented on swings on this forum to this degree, but I do when it comes to J.B. because I have studied it to death. I have.. or had a swing similar in MECHANICS. My instructor is pulling me away from it because I have hit a wall with it.
My grip is almost pure neutral now, my swing is longer, and I 'release' more. I have to admit, I think I drove it further with my shorter, chest involved, inside, strong grip move... but my irons stunk. Actually I would say at the top, my backswing was extremely similar to JB's... very similar. The big difference is his first move down is PURE GOLD. Neutral hands, and a drop inside before coming out to the ball... with great lower body acceleration. Beauty.
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this 'down-cocking' a start down you are describing is called float loading. it is basically adding wrist cock on the downswing. see sergio garcia
ColinMB
New
Yea, Sergio has a really pronounced version of it. But since my swing was closer to JB's, I always kinda looked at his swing. "Float loading" eh? I'll have to remember that one.
I practiced float loading last night at the range, it feels 'weak'... which I imagine is an illusion. By weak I mean it seems you wait for eternity for your right elbow to drive into your right side all the while trying -not- to do anything with your wrists until you get to the bottom of the swing.
Waiting that long to use your muscles is hard to do. Then you have to go after it at the bottom with as much as you can without losing balance. Pretty nice flight results though... just feels weak.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Not really. Down cocking isn't always the same as float loading. Nicklaus "floated" into more lag while Holmes violently snaps his transition into more delay. Seems like a small difference but they are miles apart in feel.
yes i agree, but by TGM definition, they are float loading.
someone who talks better TGM then i do could expand, elaborate and define
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