Need some help from the fitters out there. I did a fitting recently and the shaft recommendation was KBS Tours stiff (130 gram, I think). I thought this meant that I would order the clubs from the OEM with these shafts. The fitter says no, the KBS's that come in the OEM clubs are not the same as what they (the fitters) use. He says the KBS's from the OEM's are a "made for" shaft and not as reliable as real deal KBS's. Big difference in price. So I'm confused. He also says they pure the shafts, which I had not heard of for steel. Should I just order a set from the OEM or go thru the fitter. FWIW, I really did hit the shaft well and liked the feel, but the cost is more than I ever thought it would be for a set of irons. Thanks!
KBS shaft question
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
KBS for OEM is not "made for" however a lot of the driver shafts are the "made for" and will have different characteristics. Now i haven't been keeping up with equipment much these days so it could be possible that they may play softer to flex for the general public; ie take a stiff flex and soft step them.
Adams had that problem a while ago with one of their sets, they came stock with S300s but they were soft stepped once and most better players noticed and hated it.
As long as they play to flex you will be fine.
Adams had that problem a while ago with one of their sets, they came stock with S300s but they were soft stepped once and most better players noticed and hated it.
As long as they play to flex you will be fine.
Richie3Jack
New
It's sorta true, and sort well...garbage.
What the fitter is doing is frequency matching the shafts for you. That's why he's getting those 130 gram KBS shafts. He's getting the parallel tip version (.370 tip size) instead of the taper tip version (.355 tip size).
So, what the fitter can do is with those .370 paralllel tip irons is frequency match them to a tee because they can trim from the tip and the butt end to get the frequency they are looking for. You can't really do that with the .355 taper tip.
The reason why I say this is that most OEM irons are .355 hosel size. Yet, the fitter is using a .370 shaft tip. How do they do this? The fitter drills the hosel to .370 and then gets the shaft to fit.
Soooo, the shaft he's using is different from the KBS shaft the OEM would provide.
But, he's getting the shafts from KBS, which you could get if you ordered them yourself.
Here's the thing...steel shafts are pretty darn good these days. If you are being fitted for a KBS stiff shaft, chances are you can get stiff KBS shafts that are either dead on or pretty close to where it's not going to make a difference.
3JACK
What the fitter is doing is frequency matching the shafts for you. That's why he's getting those 130 gram KBS shafts. He's getting the parallel tip version (.370 tip size) instead of the taper tip version (.355 tip size).
So, what the fitter can do is with those .370 paralllel tip irons is frequency match them to a tee because they can trim from the tip and the butt end to get the frequency they are looking for. You can't really do that with the .355 taper tip.
The reason why I say this is that most OEM irons are .355 hosel size. Yet, the fitter is using a .370 shaft tip. How do they do this? The fitter drills the hosel to .370 and then gets the shaft to fit.
Soooo, the shaft he's using is different from the KBS shaft the OEM would provide.
But, he's getting the shafts from KBS, which you could get if you ordered them yourself.
Here's the thing...steel shafts are pretty darn good these days. If you are being fitted for a KBS stiff shaft, chances are you can get stiff KBS shafts that are either dead on or pretty close to where it's not going to make a difference.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
One more thing, you can 'pure' any shaft...steel or graphite. Most pure graphite because it's less 'stable' than steel. So it's not a bs story there. You can actually learn how to pure your own irons by purchasing a spine tool for $50. If the shafts are already installed, you have to take the shafts out, take the grip and tape off, then spine align the shafts...then re-install the shaft and grip. But, they usually charge like $20 a club to pure shafts, so it's a pretty good way to save a lot of money.
3JACK
3JACK
welshdentist
New
Have you tried the Nippon Modus3 shaft? I know it comes down to the individual but these have blown me away as to how good they are "for me"
Thanks for the replies. The fitting seemed pretty extensive. They measured all my clubs first. They all came out in the same flex range, but it was off by one. They are supposed to be 5.5's, but measured out at 4.5's. My sand and lob measured out out at ladies.
I then hit a bunch of 6 irons on Trackman and got a baseline. After doing so, the software suggested shafts and the fitter had a system of heads and shaft that he could put together in a matter of seconds. I tried a bunch of shafts different shafts from light weight steel (Kutchar's shafts), graphite (225 a pop), KBS, Nippon and something else. The KBS's seemed to be the most consistent. I don't remember exactly how I did with the Nippon. They said it was a fairly new offering from Nippon and they had had a lot of success with it.
I tried a bunch of different heads, with T-man collecting all the data. I wouldn't really have thought of the head that I hit the best. My surprise was at the end. He added it up and it was a lot more than I expected. What I didn't understand is that they get the components and assemble the clubs. He said this guarantees flex and weight and the puring adds consistency. I guess my question is whether all of this will make that much difference? On the other hand I don't change clubs often (had my current set 5 yrs) and golf is my only hobby (read obsession) and it might be nice to remove any question as to whether my clubs are holding me back from playing the best I can. But then I look in the bags of good players at my club and many are playing totally stock irons, many 10 or 15 years old. Confusion reigns.
I then hit a bunch of 6 irons on Trackman and got a baseline. After doing so, the software suggested shafts and the fitter had a system of heads and shaft that he could put together in a matter of seconds. I tried a bunch of shafts different shafts from light weight steel (Kutchar's shafts), graphite (225 a pop), KBS, Nippon and something else. The KBS's seemed to be the most consistent. I don't remember exactly how I did with the Nippon. They said it was a fairly new offering from Nippon and they had had a lot of success with it.
I tried a bunch of different heads, with T-man collecting all the data. I wouldn't really have thought of the head that I hit the best. My surprise was at the end. He added it up and it was a lot more than I expected. What I didn't understand is that they get the components and assemble the clubs. He said this guarantees flex and weight and the puring adds consistency. I guess my question is whether all of this will make that much difference? On the other hand I don't change clubs often (had my current set 5 yrs) and golf is my only hobby (read obsession) and it might be nice to remove any question as to whether my clubs are holding me back from playing the best I can. But then I look in the bags of good players at my club and many are playing totally stock irons, many 10 or 15 years old. Confusion reigns.
Frans@France
New
sst pure-ing is not the same as spine-ing. Pure-ing measures more then just spine-ing like shaft straighness and some other stuff I forgot about. But one big difference between the two is the placement of the shaft in the head. I believe the pure shaft is placed 90 degree different then the spine shaft.
They charge for the pure-ing because they (the owner of the machine) must pay sst-pure (de inventors) a fee for every shaft pure-ed.
Frans@France
New
If they measured the freq. and did not cut the grips or compensate the reading for the grip then the 4.5 is wrong and more likely is 5.5
The trackman software will not suggest shafts, they might use some other software like those available from Tom Wishon.
I normally would say (depending on the level of the golfer) that it is always the combination of head and shaft (and grip) that creates the best results. Did they give you the trackman report?
Yes, it will. Ask him if he is willing to give you a copy of the fact sheet when finished. It will include the weigth of each head, shaft, grip. It will include all freq. measurement before and after cutting. It will also show either swingweight and/or moi. If they know their business you will get an outstanding product that can not be compared to the product that has been put together in the factory by some underpaid employer.
Well migth it be that those good players are so good due to natural talent and can therefore hit great shots with whatever material you give them?
Richie3Jack
New
Thanks for the info.
What do you think about the rest of what I said? I believe that is what they are doing...using parallel tip shafts, drilling hosels to .370 to fit those shafts and then trimming from the tip and butt in order to get the frequency right.
3JACK
Richie3Jack
New
I think in general...steel shafts are pretty good these days, it's just up to the individual as to what they like. Of course, you don't want crazy spin rates or launch angles, etc. But, if you hit KBS and Rifle the same...go with what feels the best.
I think Rifle, True Temper and KBS make quality steel shafts, but I prefer KBS personally. Something like Nippon feels way too light for me.
3JACK
They did send me a Trackman report with all kinds of data. They didn't cut my grips, but put the clubs in a machine and got readings. Whether the machine made the compensations or not, I do not know. The suggestions came from their own software. They are affiliated with a nationally known fitting operation. I didn't mean to suggest in my original post that I didn't trust the fitter - really good guy who wanted me to do well. I don't think he was trying to over-sell me. I guess I'm just ignorant to how much specialization was available and wondered as to real world impact on someone like me (10.8 latest revision).
Cheers.
Cheers.
Frans@France
New
Very likely you are correct, I do it most of the time
Big savings on the inventory doing it like that.The .355 can also be trimmed but only a small amount depending on the insert depth of the hosel of the club and the precision of the inside bore width.
Frans@France
New
If all data is available in the report then there is also some data about your dispersion both in length as well as side deviation. The proposed combination should show significant improvement over your current set. I assume that they also let you hit your current set on the Trackman so you can compare those results against the proposed set.
It's up to you to decide if the improvement is worth the money.
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