Lag Loading

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johngolf33

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I remember taking a lesson with Ben Doyle a few years ago when he explained to me that in the beginning of the backswing to the Top it was kinetic energy being used, and to start the downswing it was potential energy until a certain point when kinetic energy kicked in again. When does the player apply the Throw that uses kinetic energy on the downswing? Is the change in direction the "Lag Loading" that has to be sustained? Also when the player does apply the kinetic energy on the downswing is it powered by the Pivot or the shoulders and arms?
 
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thefuture37

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That is a VERY poor description of what kinetic/potential energy actually means. It would be better to come up with terms that don't have very definite definitions in science.
 
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matt kluck

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Johngolf33,
Please refer to section 7-19 in the Book, "The Golfing Machine" and read the reference sections to understand more of what you talk about. 7-19 describes the three basic loading procedures and will give you some of the answers you seek.:) If you have questions after reading the material I suggest, which I doubt, feel free to post them and we can have a great conversation. Good luck,
MK
johngolf33 said:
I remember taking a lesson with Ben Doyle a few years ago when he explained to me that in the beginning of the backswing to the Top it was kinetic energy being used, and to start the downswing it was potential energy until a certain point when kinetic energy kicked in again. When does the player apply the Throw that uses kinetic energy on the downswing? Is the change in direction the "Lag Loading" that has to be sustained? Also when the player does apply the kinetic energy on the downswing is it powered by the Pivot or the shoulders and arms?
Click to expand...
 
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flapro

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Actually, there are two forces at work; Normal and Shear. Normal is the feet pressing downward and perpendicular while transferring weight and shear is parallel with the rotational movement of the hips.
Torque is created by Shear forces moving rotationally and creating clubhead speed against and with a solid base of normal force going into the ground.

johngolf33 said:
I remember taking a lesson with Ben Doyle a few years ago when he explained to me that in the beginning of the backswing to the Top it was kinetic energy being used, and to start the downswing it was potential energy until a certain point when kinetic energy kicked in again. When does the player apply the Throw that uses kinetic energy on the downswing? Is the change in direction the "Lag Loading" that has to be sustained? Also when the player does apply the kinetic energy on the downswing is it powered by the Pivot or the shoulders and arms?
Click to expand...
 
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johngolf33

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thefuture37 said:
That is a VERY poor description of what kinetic/potential energy actually means. It would be better to come up with terms that don't have very definite definitions in science.
Click to expand...

I didn't use those terms. It was Ben's discription of what goes on with the backswing, transition and the downswing. In start up there is reverse lag pressure which is responsible for kinetic energy. In the change of direction the lag is set and loaded which is potential energy. When the pivot blasts the left arm off the chest and the right arm straightens and the left wrist uncocks and rolls the accumulators are released which is kinetic energy again.
 
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thefuture37

Banned
My point was that the definitions of "potential" and "kinetic" energy in physics and TGM are obviously different based on that quote. Its therefore confusing to use physics terms if you are going to redefine them. Based on the physics definition, the hands move down from the top of the swing, so potential energy is decreasing even if your hands are holding all the lag that is there.
 
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johngolf33

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...Based on the physics definition, the hands move down from the top of the swing, so potential energy is decreasing even if your hands are holding all the lag that is there.[/QUOTE]

What if the hands are moved down by the pivot and are totally passive at that point? I don't see any loss of potential energy if the accumulators are unspent. Any thoughts?
 
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thefuture37

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my posts are based on the physics definition of potential energy and how its confusing to use that term in golf. Its becoming more clear how confusing it is to people as the posts keep coming in...
 
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johngolf33

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thefuture37 said:
my posts are based on the physics definition of potential energy and how its confusing to use that term in golf. Its becoming more clear how confusing it is to people as the posts keep coming in...
Click to expand...

I know Homer Kelley used a physics book as a reference when writing TGM because I heard him say it on a tape that one of his AI's had recorded when he was being taught by Mr. Kelley.
 
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puttmad

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Pow!....

Here's one from the lag king himself....take a good look at his left hand in pic 4...He must do some serious unloading just before impact....
Like to see Brian analyse this one sometime...
img7777abb036opt.jpg
 
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neil

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flapro said:
Actually, there are two forces at work; Normal and Shear. Normal is the feet pressing downward and perpendicular while transferring weight and shear is parallel with the rotational movement of the hips.
Torque is created by Shear forces moving rotationally and creating clubhead speed against and with a solid base of normal force going into the ground.
Click to expand...

WHAT! -are we talking structures? or mechanics? or both?
 
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