Lag Pressure and PP#3

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brucifer

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Are these the same thing?

I have to admit that I don't feel these in my swing.

Does anybody else NOT feel these??

TGM, Ben and Brian both mention this frequently in their respective books and videos, but this is one element I haven't grasped yet.

Should I be worried?

I think I do most of my control with the left hand. For instance, to maintain lag, I don't allow it to uncock.

Thanks,
B
 
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suns11111

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Heres one of my favorite Ive seen in the archive. I can digest some of this information, but my best words -lost in translating to me.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8404&page=3&highlight=pressure+points

Examples Lag pressure in sweetspot and hosel (what not to do) with PP#3.

In Brians words:

Well, you STOP "LAGGING THE HOSEL" by ROTATING the SWEETSPOT OFF of the plane, and getting your right forefinger knuckle (#3 pressure point) "behind" the sweetspot, or if you like, on the aft side of the grip.

You COULD DO IT with your elbow at your side (something, btw, I never have EVER used in 25 years of teaching golf as a key), or you could do it with your elbow somewhere else.

But...

you absolutely, positively, would NEVER, EVER cure someone who is lagging the hosel, by getting the elbow at the side.
Good luck
Jeff S
 
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Pure Ball Striker

Pure Ball Striker

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Clubhead Lag and #3 Pressure Point

brucifer said:
Are these the same thing?

I have to admit that I don't feel these in my swing.

Does anybody else NOT feel these??

TGM, Ben and Brian both mention this frequently in their respective books and videos, but this is one element I haven't grasped yet.

Should I be worried?

I think I do most of my control with the left hand. For instance, to maintain lag, I don't allow it to uncock.

Thanks,
B
Click to expand...

B
Don't be worried most of my students were not aware of this pressure. They learn to sense this (TGM Chapter 6-C-2-0) Clubhead Lag is the "Secret of Golf."
It can be any one or any combination of pressure points, selected to sense Clubhead Acceleration rate and direction and Homer continues to state unless otherwise specified, always refers to Pressure Point #3.

I know of a training device that senses this Clubhead Lag in #3 Pressure Point. It is call the Pure Ball Striker. Over on The Golfing Machine site they have the #3 pressure point trainer. I am the inventor of this training device.
check out the website at www.pureballstriker.com.

Hope this helps,
 
B

brucifer

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I almost feel that my right hand is fairly redundant in the swing, just along for the ride.

I'm just thinking, 'uncock and roll' for my left hand. Sometimes my right hand comes off the club altogether, but I still hit a 3 iron 230 yds, 7 iron 165 yds

I will have to see what the benefits of this are, maybe start focusing on PP#3 to see what I can feel.

Thanks,
B
 
Pure Ball Striker

Pure Ball Striker

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You may feel that way

brucifer said:
I almost feel that my right hand is fairly redundant in the swing, just along for the ride.

I'm just thinking, 'uncock and roll' for my left hand. Sometimes my right hand comes off the club altogether, but I still hit a 3 iron 230 yds, 7 iron 165 yds

I will have to see what the benefits of this are, maybe start focusing on PP#3 to see what I can feel.

Thanks,
B
Click to expand...

B
You might feel that way about your motion. However, the right-hand more specifically (6-C-2-0) the right index finger first joint senses Clubhead Lag and that is one of The Three Basic Imperatives of G.O.L.F. It could be any combination of Pressure Points.

Feels subjective - Mechanics objective. Allow mechanics to create feel and feel to recreate.
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

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PBS......have you/would you consider.....

a group buy for members of BM.com???? This is something fairly common to specialty internet forums.
 
2mongoose

2mongoose

New
brucifer said:
I almost feel that my right hand is fairly redundant in the swing, just along for the ride.

I'm just thinking, 'uncock and roll' for my left hand. Sometimes my right hand comes off the club altogether, but I still hit a 3 iron 230 yds, 7 iron 165 yds

I will have to see what the benefits of this are, maybe start focusing on PP#3 to see what I can feel.

Thanks,
B
Click to expand...

There is a great thread somewhere on the forums where Brian answered this question. I'll try and find it later but off the top of my head.........

Having pressure there is critical because in the downswing, once you've really started to put some stress on the shaft, you can monitor the sweetspot. You should get some feedback on whether you're under it and need to turn it off the plane, etc.

Try hitting balls w/o your right thumb or finger (at least don't "hook" it) off the shaft. You have no choice but to turn if off the plane then, but the PP3 gives you the ability to monitor it.
 
B

brucifer

New
2mongoose said:
There is a great thread somewhere on the forums where Brian answered this question. I'll try and find it later but off the top of my head.........

Having pressure there is critical because in the downswing, once you've really started to put some stress on the shaft, you can monitor the sweetspot. You should get some feedback on whether you're under it and need to turn it off the plane, etc.

Try hitting balls w/o your right thumb or finger (at least don't "hook" it) off the shaft. You have no choice but to turn if off the plane then, but the PP3 gives you the ability to monitor it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, would be great if you can find that post of Brians too as I'm interested in this PP#3, for me, focusing on it causes shanking, as even with a square clubface, I end up directing the hosel.

How do you mean 'turn it off the plane'?

i.e. to bring the clubface back to square???

I take it having my forefinger off is to give me an idea of what the feel is without it.

I'll try this tomorrow afternoon.
 
T

theodoreandon

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I ordered one and received it today. Can't wait to try it tomorrow. Any more tips to help with using this? I have to admit I am going to be basically winging it when I use it.
 
T

theodoreandon

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Im not smart enough to understand that - I need the layman's version.

Do I feel contant pressure against the index finger joint through the whole swing?

Just on the downswing?
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
theodoreandon said:
Im not smart enough to understand that - I need the layman's version.

Do I feel contant pressure against the index finger joint through the whole swing?

Just on the downswing?
Click to expand...

Usually the weight of the clubhead shifts onto the forefinger somewhere in the backswing, more in the transition and that pressure is carried past the ball.
 
B

brucifer

New
doubled said:
Usually the weight of the clubhead shifts onto the forefinger somewhere in the backswing, more in the transition and that pressure is carried past the ball.
Click to expand...

Is the weight just meant to be felt??

My understanding was that you used that PP#3 to 'thrust' your force towards the ball??

Which is maybe why we flip.... as forcing from the forefinger, as it sits at the end of the bent right wrist tends to cause the right to unbend.
 
B

brucifer

New
2mongoose said:
Some comments from Brian on the #3 PP and the "why" of how to feel it.


http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?p=111007#post111007
Click to expand...

Brian Manzella said:
In general, I was talking about WHY the #3 Pressure Point is the Number Three Pressure Point.

It is because if you try to rotate the left arm, and there is resistance, there is pressure on that right forefinger knuckle.

Most folks don't realize that—including some "so-called" book experts (until I pointed it out). Most folks just focus on the CLUBHEAD LAG pressure point that the #3 can be as well.

For someone who employs MORE #3 accumulator angle (LEFT ARM ROLL) just prior to impact, they will feel MORE pressure there.

For someone who employs less, they just feel the Clubhead Lag pressure.
Click to expand...

"For someone who employs MORE #3 accumulator angle (LEFT ARM ROLL) just prior to impact, they will feel MORE pressure there."

I don't see how this works as rotating your left hand as you would towards impact is moving the force 'away' from the right forefinger and for me results in less pressure on the right forefinger which is essentially at the back of the club shaft??

Unless its the end knuckle near the nail end, which I didn't think it was


B
 
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K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I understand your point but as the left arm is rolling the sweetspot, the right forefinger is turning it down just as hard. I think your point would be true if the left side wasn't taut or stretched, then the left arm might throw the pressure of the forefinger. But as it is the constant pulling of the left side, rolling of the left arm, and driving of the right forefinger keeps the pressure intact.
 
2mongoose

2mongoose

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theodoreandon said:
Im not smart enough to understand that - I need the layman's version.

Do I feel contant pressure against the index finger joint through the whole swing?

Just on the downswing?
Click to expand...

Depends on a few things. I'll give you my components and tell you where I feel it:

I like to feel pressure there early and accomplish that via a full sweep load at start up. So with the club at waist high my right wrist is already bent, left wrist is flattening and beginning to cock.

I lose some of that feeling in the transition to the top because that pressure goes from being behind the shaft to on top of it.

In the downswing when I've really started to put stress on the shaft and turn the sweet spot off plane do I pick that sense of pressure back up.
 
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