Low Point and the line-up

[Todd Dugan]

OK, so you want to release that shaft with your hands as fast as you can throught impact. Great. Let's do it. And so, as the scientists have pointed out, the low point of the clubhead arc will be pretty much occur when the shaft becomes vertical, perpendicular to the Plane Line..............a different kind of "line-up", if you will. So where do you want the Low Point and this line-up of the shaft to occur? Well, like all aspects of technique for great ball-strikers, there is a "range". But a pretty tasty model to use is that of Tom Watson. Notice that the straight left arm and shaft become in-line and vertical directly below the left shoulder. The double pendulum model perfectly exemplified by a human.......a human "machine", really. Hard to deny that there is something special about Tom's effortless, rythymical, free release.

 

[SteveT]

OK, so you want to release that shaft with your hands as fast as you can through impact. Great. Let's do it. .....

Let's stop here and clarify what you mean by "release the shaft with your hands as fast as you can"... which may suggest there is some kind of applied hand action/forces through final release. Is that what you are saying?

Then we can discuss "when the shaft becomes vertical"... or "goes normal" in the current vernacular.

 

[Tophdad]

Steve - The thought would be to speed the lower end of the grip past the top part of the grip through release - rotation around the coupling point.

 

[Tophdad]

I love Tom's swing. Proves you don't have to be a physical specimen to knock the sh*t out of a ball.

 

[bluebird]

Suggest buying and studing the "what ifs" in Brians Ideas video.

 

[Todd Dugan]

To be clear, you can have great handle rotation speed and STILL bring the shaft to vertical at a nice "forward" location.....say, not before the left shoulder. AND, I know that the clubhead Low Point CAN occur before this point. There's only a couple of ways that can happen.....I know what they are...........and certainly many great players do it. But its only going to be SLIGHTLY before.....a few inches. But when the shaft becomes vertical is of critical importance. I just got done with a very successful 2 days of training with a "hard core" flipper. The key swing thought was to release the shaft with good "closing" acceleration to vertical in-line with the outside of the left foot. The best practice drill was to put an impact bag there.

And I'm looking at a lot of swings to see when the shaft becomes vertical, and I'm seeing that the "range" is actually pretty narrow. A big percentage of great players are lining up the shaft under the left shoulder.

 

[Robbierob99]

I'd rather know a "range" for when the shaft & right arm make a "straight line." Working with an impact bag in the past just sent me deeper and deeper into Tuggsville. Thats just me though, i'm sure it might be great for some people.

In other words, when are most of the best ball strikers getting that shaft up their right arm?

I'd bet Brian already has a video that shows this (he kind of mentions it in his Front 9 Luke Donald video) and I'd bet its just past the left leg if not on the left leg.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Where is the heck does it say that LOW POINT occurs when the shaft is vertical????????

 

[Todd Dugan]

I'd rather know a "range" for when the shaft & right arm make a "straight line." Working with an impact bag in the past just sent me deeper and deeper into Tuggsville. Thats just me though, i'm sure it might be great for some people.

In other words, when are most of the best ball strikers getting that shaft up their right arm?

I'd bet Brian already has a video that shows this (he kind of mentions it in his Front 9 Luke Donald video) and I'd bet its just past the left leg if not on the left leg.

Yeah, I use that too. But that shaft should line up with the right arm when both are about 45* to the plane line. WAY past the left leg. Like lining up the shaft perpendicular to the plane line in-line with the left foot, it is effective largely because it puts the focus on a point PAST impact, and thus inhibits pivot and arm stalling.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Where is the heck does it say that LOW POINT occurs when the shaft is vertical????????

Dr. Aaron Zick, in the discussion on Low Point at your first Anti-Summit.

quote............. "you can always tell the low point because it will be when the club itself is practically vertical. The arms can be way out in front, or a little bit in front, but, the club itself will be virtually vertical at low point because it's rotating around the hands so much faster than the hands are rotating around the body at impact that it's as though the hands have found a stationary point and now the club is just swinging around the hands. So when the hands are—when the club is vertical, that's where you have low point."

 

[Brian Manzella]

I like that idea....in general.

But, especially with the driver, you are trying NOT to do that.

You dig?

 

[Michael Finney]

The double pendulum model perfectly exemplified by a human.......a human "machine", really.

Not quite so - the double pendulum model has as its upper link an "imaginary arm" that runs from the grip to the tie knot......soooo, if there were no manipulations and a perfect circle, the club's low point would be opposite the tie knot...

 

[Todd Dugan]

I like that idea....in general.

But, especially with the driver, you are trying NOT to do that.

You dig?

Thanks. I think its real solid, Brian. The vertical line-up location relative to left foot, width of stance, and ball position can all be adjustable for different situations. But except for low-power situations, I wouldn't line up vertical before the left shoulder.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Not quite so - the double pendulum model has as its upper link an "imaginary arm" that runs from the grip to the tie knot......soooo, if there were no manipulations and a perfect circle, the club's low point would be opposite the tie knot...

Obviously, I'm using the left arm as the upper rod. Since the axis of the upper rod, the left shoulder is not fixed in a golf swing, the golfer is really more like a triple pendulum. But for simplicity's sake, I'm sticking with the double pendulum model. And Watson's upper and lower rods DO line-up at vertical, just a true double pendulum would....again, regardless of where the actual low point occurs. But in that swing, the low point IS on that vertical line. That's a 300 fps video on YouTube. Pretty clear to see.

 

[Michael Finney]

that's where we run into trouble....the upper arm in all double pendulum models are from the tie knot to the grip because the researchers are trying to account for BOTH arms and their individual (and tandem) contributions....

you can model the golf swing all you want and say the upper link is solely the left arm, but as you know this isn't real world because of the right arm and hands contribution....ask any "left arm only golfers" and he or she will tell you the difference

this is why golf swing modelling is so brutal and incomplete - the golfer forms a "closed loop" at the grip and assigning the exact biomechanic contributions to each arm is close to impossible at this time.....

you can guess, you can simplify,you can assume, or you can assume smartly (as steven nesbit did) and try to work out the problem using your best estimates......but all these estimates will affect low point....