Moe Norman's one plane swing

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Here are some selected quotes from TGM experts on the subject of the "impossibility" of swinging on one plane, followed by rwh's observations of actual footage of Moe Norman.

"Swinging on a single axis is nearly impossible. Which is why you use words like "essentially" and "basically"."----ragman

"YOU CAN'T SWING THE LEFT ARM ON PLANE. It doesn't start on plane and it OBVIOUSLY isn't on plane at the end of the backstroke."----mjgordan

rwh video analysis of Moe Norman: "I reviewed my Moe Norman tape last night of a clinic he gave for Dr. Jim Suttie. Moe discusses his palm grip -- in both hands -- and his large grips -- "more control". Peggy Kirk Bell is in attendance. After Moe shows how he takes the grip in the palms of his hands, a lady in the audience can be heard to say, "We just spent a whole week learning the other way." Dr. Suttie does a freeze frame analysis and draws a line up the clubshaft at address. Neither the club nor the right forearm nor the left arm ever left that plane line. Moe sets up with his left arm on plane which he accomplishes with a palm grip and by standing straight-legged, far from the ball, with a pronounced waist bend."

I also have that video footage. The arms, hands, and club are on one plane at adress and throughout the swing. The shoulders, obviously are initially flatter in the beginning, but join the same single plane before impact and well beyond until the finish.
 
Don't say that I said you couldn't swing on one plane. You certainly can have zero plane shifts. This still doesn't mean the left arm is on plane. It means the club doesn't shift planes.
 
Well, Moe's left arm plane at address is for all practical purposes indentical to it's impact plane, and there are only the smallest of deviations from that plane throughout the entire swing!
 

Mathew

Banned
quote:Originally posted by David Alford

Dr. Suttie does a freeze frame analysis and draws a line up the clubshaft at address. Neither the club nor the right forearm nor the left arm ever left that plane line. Moe sets up with his left arm on plane which he accomplishes with a palm grip and by standing straight-legged, far from the ball, with a pronounced waist bend."

I also have that video footage. The arms, hands, and club are on one plane at adress and throughout the swing. The shoulders, obviously are initially flatter in the beginning, but join the same single plane before impact and well beyond until the finish.

There is a saying that a picture is worth a thousand words ....

Let me just slam dunk this guy cos he's starting to get on my nerves...

MoePlanes.jpg


So is this what you call a small difference ?

Really your of your Single Axis posts are plane wrong (pun intended) .....

Come on just admit it - Now buy a copy of TGM (you can get a good price of www.amazon.co.uk and www.amazon.com)and learn the real facts !... :D
 

ej20

New
Without taking sides,i think it would be fair to say that Moe swings as close to single axis as HUMANLY possible and certainly closer to any player I have seen.There will always be an element of arm lift during the backswing which will take the club onto a higher plane and even Moe shows a bit of it.He doesn't lift his left arm much because he has a very short arm swing..his hands never get above shoulder high.The further you swing the left arm back,the more it will gradually lift,imperceptible to the player.

It is physically impossible to swing on a PERFECTLY flat,single plane but Moe gets close as did Hogan.
 

holenone

Banned
Because Moe Grips the Club under the Heel of the Left Hand -- and not in the Cup -- and because the Left Wrist is Level -- and not Uncocked -- the Plane of the Left Arm cannot possibly be the Plane of the Clubshaft.
 
The left arm and club are pretty much on the same plane. Look at impact and you'll see they are again on that same plane. I could draw one thick plane line from ball through the club, arms, and shoulder and it would show basically one plane. Skinny lines, show it's not perfect but guess what, there are no straight lines in the human body!

You can't even draw a perfectly straight line through your arm even when you hold it "straight"! Do you conclude your upper and lower arms aren't on the same plane? I think not.

It is as far as humanly possible a single axis swing. And you'll see that dynamically if you look at footage as rwh did.

Guys, everything is relative. You might as well criticize someone saying "Tiger Woods hits the ball hard" with: "Oh really? They've got machines that hit the ball twice as hard as he does, so you're statement is b.s."

If you want a pure single axis swing, it would have to be machine similiar to the mechanized Iron Byron, but in the meantime Moe Norman did a pretty respectable demonstration of "single axis".

Moe Norman 100, critics here 0.
 
btw, guys, here's an inside scoop. There is a completed movie script on Moe Norman's life and it is being seriously considered as we debate Moe's swing by a major producer. It might eventually be something like the Jones film.

Todd Graves is one of the consultants and was recently in Hollywood to meet with the powers that be. They're trying to put together 14 million to make it all happen.
 
David,
Moe doesn't even START with the left arm and club on the same plane. How can he swing them on the same plane if they don't even start there?
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by holenone

Because Moe Grips the Club under the Heel of the Left Hand -- and not in the Cup -- and because the Left Wrist is Level -- and not Uncocked -- the Plane of the Left Arm cannot possibly be the Plane of the Clubshaft.

Teacher:

I certainly agree with you that a Grip with Club under Left Heel Pad and Level wrist precludes Left Arm on Plane with Clubshaft. Do you agree that if the Grip is in the Cup of the Left Hand that the Left Arm could be on-plane with the Clubshaft? The reason I ask is because I have the Suttie video wherein he does a freeze frame analysis showing that Moe's left arm is on the clubshaft plane. His statement on the video is that Moe swings "on a single axis", by which he was referring to the Clubshaft Plane.

Mathew or mgjordan, can you tell me how to get that Suttie freeze frame displayed on the board? It is a VHS non-digital video. I will be glad to post it so that everyone can view it.
 
I answered that. rwh has seen the same footage, go back to his remarks in the first post on this thread.

Neither of us are saying it is absolutely single axis, because a human doesn't have straight lines. Is it basically as single axis swing? Yes, as close as a human can do.

rwh, you asked earlier if I can hit the ball as long with the Moe Norman swing as my regular swing and I replied it's about 20 yds. shorter. I've been working on it since I last tested clubhead speed and the gap has closed.

Moe deserves a lot of credit, but I don't think he is the genius people made him out to be. A lot of people will be able to use this swing if they really know what to do. But you're not going it get it from TGM.
Anyone who disagrees, read all about it in TGM, work on it for a week, and then post your results or swing clip.

I'll be glad to post my swing (hit) sequence of this swing model.
 
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