Need help with my $800 golf lesson -- & a Manzella video suggestion. (swing video)

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nickw511

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Need help with my $800 golf lesson -- & a Manzella video suggestion. (swing video)

Greetings...I need your help...I am in the middle of an $800 series of lessons where all we seem to work on is style over dynamics and the promise of "getting worse (yup) before better". (Yes, I am a sucker). I have six more lessons and want to salvage something. I just got COFF and have worked on that on my own this week as that seems like a logical place to start.

I have posted a link to the video of my swing for your amusement, i mean analysis :)

Background: I can shoot in the low 80's (90's right now), can occasionally crush drives but generally not as long as i feel i should be. Misses usually hooks that start straight and sometimes pulls. Inconsistent contact with fat shots predominating. Divots are early but generally straight. Besides the contact, the driver is another current problem (low, short, straight ball that hooks, almost a duck hook). Good short game.
Self diagnosis: Too flat/stiff takeaway (but top position is ok?). Often I "quit" on my shot. I try to steer it down the line. OTT sometimes. A lot of tension and "hit" in my hands. I don't like the way my upper body moves on my downswing, but can't put my finger on why. (Maybe I should quit golf!?).

I've been trying to keep my backswing on plane and set my wrists early, but hate how manipulative all that feels.

Looking at my swing, what manzella video would you recommend next? I'll continue to work on Flipper. NSA seems popular, but I think my club face is already shut too much. NHA seems to be based on a swing that is too inside out which I don't think I have either...oh, and my initial question, what should I TRY and get my current pop coach to help me with?

Thanks in advance!!

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1dvYKBsBPx4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1dvYKBsBPx4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dvYKBsBPx4[/media]
 
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savydan

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If you are in the middle of your lesson series and have 6 more left, what have you been working on for the first 6 lessons??

You've got a hammer left hand grip and have a dead shut clubface. Everything else basically comes from there.

I would neutralize your grip and start over.

In other words, once you got a decent grip, who knows how you're going to swing.
 
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Frizit

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Yep, club is way closed at the top. Smother hooking it. I bet you hit the ball low too. I would weaken the grip and then you are going to have to get the club going more left instead of as down the line as this video appears.
 
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nickw511

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grip

I would certainly have to agree my clubface is pretty darn shut in this particular video. But as far as grip, when i hold the club straight out in front of me with my left wrist flat to the sky, ala Manzella, my club face is pretty square/flat also....I'll definitely keep monitoring that though.
The lessons have focused on shortening the swing, and a lot of straight back take away trying to keep the club above the line.
 
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fronesis

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I agree with previous comments: it looks to me like you are scooping at the ball at the bottom, precisely so as to keep from shutting the clubface and hitting an ugly hook.

I understand that your current grip doesn't FEEL too strong to you, but I really think it is. I posted earlier about working with a friend on the neutral grip, and he would always find a way to do the manzella face to sky test without realizing he had the thing 30 degrees closed in his hand. You might be doing something similar.
 
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dsmith2296

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Man, it doesn't look like you are going after the ball at all. Looks like you are statically posing a shot for the camera. I'd like to see a more dynamic hard swing at the ball wherein you load up some energy in that shaft.

I presented this in a separate thread that did not get much attention, but if you use your pivot at transition to load the right arm with energy, that'd be great. Watch Sergio's right elbow here at transition to downswing- you can see the energy storage:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sZ6QQAjc0M&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebrianmanzella%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fgolfing%2Ddiscussions%2F12269%2Dabove%2Daddress%2Dshaft%2Dplane%2Dangle%2Dimpact%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded[/media]

and not to hijack your thread, but I offer the following clip to demonstrate how I believe you specifically can benefit by learning how to load energy and delay the hit. Look at his arm at the 32 sec mark.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCugqNjPemU[/media]
 
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savydan

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I know there is a common tendency to grip it stronger when you actually hit a shot (or go to the golf course) then when you just monitor it like the Manzella check point. Pressure/stress can make you grip it stronger.

Your left hand looks Paul Azinger/Judy Rankin strong - hammer like - where you hit the ball with the side of your hand, not the back of your hand. As in I can read your glove logo from the face-on view rather than from the target side.

Your grip can and should affect how you swing. That's why I think it's tough to make any suggestions if you are going to make a relatively significant grip adjustment.
 
dominicscaife

dominicscaife

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Judging from your current footage I would have to say it is very simple:

1. Investigate all possible means to get your money back and not waste any more time with this guy. Talk to the management, say your moving to New Orleans if necessary... maybe even try and trade your lesson $$ for some shiny equipment and resell on ebay if you don't need.

2. Move mountains and put any $$$ you salvage towards a lesson with Brian.
 
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Tball88

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Ok, I agree his clubface is less open at the top, but why would you recommend only changing the grip.

I just posted a clip of Duval and he's in the same position at the top. The way I see it he can either change his grip to more neutral and have a more active arm and hands release or he can keep the strong grip and release the club more with his body which would create a more fade like ballflight.
 
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pieman

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if you really are dissatisfied with the instruction, express it to them and try to recoup your money. i'm sure they would not want the bad publicity if you were to say who it is. good luck. this is a great place to learn though.
 
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welshdentist

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A qualified instructor would need to decide whether to change the grip/clubface or match the body to that dependant on which is best for him long term.

I was just saying I would want to swing more like Duval or Sergio depending on which would best give me a consistant repeatable d-plane/ball flight.

The more I learn the less advice I give ;)
 
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welshdentist

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The hardest thing is the pro could be addressing the face toward the end of the series...

In Manzella land he may have just taking away the reward that allows the shut face to work, and now he's hooking the crap out of it, only to fix it in the last few.

Hard to know when this guy may have a set plan over the series of lessons to comment.

Or worryingly he may not know what the f^&k he's doing :D
 
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Tball88

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I think to make the shut face work, which many, many pros do, he's got to learn to just rotate the body and not make any effort to shut the face down any more. Effectively with the more closed face at the top he's in impact position, now he just needs to carry it to the bottom. If the toe was more up, he would have to add some rotation to get the club squared.

I have fought the left for years, but the reason wasn't that I had a closed face that the top, the reason was I then took that closed face and turned it more closed through impact.
 
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gsears

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Three comments:
1. It is hard to tell, but your right hand looks a bit like the "claw grip", where the club lies more in the palm than in the fingers., which causes an overly strong grip, and hooks. Make sure the grip is lying in the fingers. I have just had my gripped fixed, and have seen a major improvement in my swing plane.
2. In the follow through, your weight is not shifting enough to your front leg.
3. Do you feel like your left arm is being pushed straight as you swing away from the ball? Your left arm looks almost locked to me.
Good luck!
 
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nickw511

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update

Thanks for the feedback...keep it coming. Had a "lesson" today and some practice time and it was very enlightening. The "lesson" was higher hands at set up. He told me if I wanted to change my grip I could. Very helpful. :mad::confused:

Anyway...I have been working hard on COFF this past week and it shows, i had some really good impact hands frequently. The bigger issue...I now have to concede -- my grip is a bit strong...the machine was showing a pretty consistantly closed face at impact 3-4 degrees. I worked on neutralizing that. I got to the point it was always a few degrees open at impact...all though still looking shut at the top, it was perfectly vertical (facing away from me) coming down parallel prior impact. And all things being equal was most surprised to see my swing path was consistantly 8-10 degrees INSIDE-OUT....which I just didn't think I could do (or was doing). Even when I tried to come over the outside I couldn't.

I think i need to continue to work on my body getting my hands to impact as well as relaxing my arms.

Any thoughts on helping me swing more left? I guess I need to get Never Hook Again....yes/no??

Thanks!
 
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