OFF Plane Loading - 10-24F

[oztrainee]

OFF Plane Release- 10-24F

Anyone can chip in some ideas on the above topics?

What is the mechanical disadvantage vs. the advantage?
The pulley position between a Flip release and Snap release?
Both Pressure Points and Arc of Approach, are they actively employ in Flip Release?
Unlike other releases, in FLIP – let’s talk about the ball position and stance line

 

[oztrainee]

Are we going to leave that interesting Topic Sink forever? Or is it a complex topics, that people not sure of?

 

[golfbulldog]

I think that it is difficult topic.... but still Homer wrote nearly 3 times as much on "flip release" 10-24-F as he did on "automatic snap release" 10-24-E... so he must have thought it worthy of mention.

Just read 10-24-F again...is he describing players who achieve correct impact alignments from an off-plane swing due to faulty pivot ( ie they are swinging along incorrect plane line) ... but achieve on-plane impact through hand release .... flip but still achieve good impact if timed well... basically "timing the flip"??

 

[oztrainee]

Off Plane Release

I think that it is difficult topic.... but still Homer wrote nearly 3 times as much on "flip release" 10-24-F as he did on "automatic snap release" 10-24-E... so he must have thought it worthy of mention.

Just read 10-24-F again...is he describing players who achieve correct impact alignments from an off-plane swing due to faulty pivot ( ie they are swinging along incorrect plane line) ... but achieve on-plane impact through hand release .... flip but still achieve good impact if timed well... basically "timing the flip"??

Thanks GBD
At least some nice fellow reply to this post.

It is all go back to the "intention" of generate some massive power, and our computer then start to tell the machine to hold on for the release (maximise our power regulator).
Because of the weight of the clubhead (plus pressure point is not actively employ), and our slow hand speed, the club drop below the arm plane.
The Hand is going down, the club is throwing out, and the pivot is going round. The shaft cut across the arm plane
Since the Pulley (I would say no more then 3inches in radius, which is sort of above the ball) is relatively small, the only way to go round it, is be able to come up with the fastest hand action.
Apart from the ball position
Timing is important, if the pivot is going fastest then the hand, then we might get a cut. Vice versa, if the hand action is going faster then the pivot, then we will get a hook. Ball positoin is curial
Pressure points and arc of approach is not actively employ, as we are focus on the phyics rather then Geometry. Amm it can be a bent plane line too.

Brain.... what would you add to it, or what would you take out from it.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Well..

I'd just fix 'em.

 

[oztrainee]

more silly questions..for this silly topics

I'd just fix 'em.

no one bother or dare to touch on this topics?

While working on a Bent Plane line, the trade off in 6-N-0
Doing it off plane, and not gaining much of the on plane force, and the FLIP quick and lazy hand action making up the speed with a smaller pulley. So what is better?
Although the Pulley size is smaller with a Flip. but it is Off Plane.
With a Snap, the Pulley size is bigger then the FLip, but is on plane
So, what gives you more power, or assuming the alignment remain perfect which hits the ball further.

What causing the off plane situation>The delay and slow hands
What causing the Flip >because of the Off Plane situation

Automatic procedure is essential on Flip release. Can we do it with an non-automatic procedure?

The different between non auto and auto. 6-N-0
One “make” impact and there is “start to hit” in Non-Auto
One use impact hand location, drives the hand to aiming point.

Homer said with a FLIP. “When the Hands reach a certain point in relation to the body on the basis of Feel”. Could we call it “start to hit”

 

[Brian Manzella]

Kenny,

Do you want me to help you understand 10-24-F?

If you do, just let me know.

 

[oztrainee]

I am a bit lost on this one

Brian,

Yes, as you can see that I got a bit stuck and is going round in circle. Obviously, one of the best way to learn the FLIP is to go out and feel the CF with the club. But what is the best way to explain it to people.

I don't think it is a simple question, as I had throw this question elsewhere, no one even bother to answer it.

Thanks

 

[oztrainee]

More intelligence for confusion

Just wondering this is a "Quit" or a "Flip"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HigCq2ucNvA

When Tiger was doing his Stinger, could I say that it is more like a flip then everything else. AS...Flip means the club head is placed under the arm plane just before release and flipped out during release


The Flip Release, employs the smallest size of Pulley, and to guarantee the Hand Motion….The Pulley rotating from Incline and moving towards horizontal.

Either Arm or Shaft on plane (At release point)
To get the shaft on plane we have to keeps the arm off plane, and vice versa, keeping the arm to be on plane the shaft will be off plane

Laura Davis is fully "uncocked" at impact while executing her Flip, What is the advantage of running out Acc #2 during impact/or before impact?

 

[golfbulldog]

Kenny,

Do you want me to help you understand 10-24-F?

If you do, just let me know.

Don't know about Kenny but i would love to know what this section is on about!

It actually takes up alot of space in the book, is one of the least quoted sections and least understood ( i suspect)...

Is it the flip that you had , ie. pre Ben and "confessions of a former flipper"??

Thanks Brian.

 

[oztrainee]

The 10-24F

Had a long discussion with KOC about 10-24F. I think we should really work out the different between HAND CONTROLLED PIVOT & PIVOT CONTROLLED HAND.
As this is the only topic that Homer had reminded us to think about PCH procedure. Again, Homer had mentioned a lot about hands timing. Therefore PCH doesn't mean that the hand do not have to do a thing. In fact in PCH procedure, we will need a better pair of hands (Well trained educated hands) before we can monitor the pivot rather then the hands.
Expanding this infiltration could serve as your" Relative Translation procedure to true "hand controlled pivot" procedures.
As it is a Physics precedence over Geometry - Force dictating alignments. We will just have to swing the club

Here are the items Homer talk about.

-Use Open and close stance for Aiming point. rather then aiming the thrust.
-Use shoulder turn takeaway to have a curved Plane Shift by both the Hands and Clubhead
-To obtain proper impact is the result of the Hands timing the sequence of these actions.
-Keeping the left arm(WITH OR WITHOUT MOMENTUM TRANSFER or RIGHT ARM AID) Pulling -strongly throughout.
-This need not be a subconscious procedure, because the hands can consciously sense -and manipulate the Rhythm of Centrifugal.

Let's talk about it..... shall we?

Hand CONTROLLED PIVOT
pivot CONTROLLED HAND

The hand can request the pivot and the pivot response. But the pivot will dictate the impact alignment.
12-5-1 - add FOLLOW-through adjustment procedure...

 

[KOC]

oztrainee,

I don’t know you will post out our discussion of TGM in Brian site…I am afraid you don’t know here has a term book-literalist… tongzilla’s definition: Someone who takes things out of the book and applies it literally. E.g. going through every item in the Mechanical Checklist before hitting a shot (there are 45 items).

<OAnyway, my main concern in discussion with you was that I believe Homer terms "Hand Controlled Pivot" and "Pivot Controlled Hands" does not mean "hand request the pivot" or "Pivot in response to hand" stuffs ....though you might believe it does.

<OI see these 2 terms as monitoring HANDS or PIVOT with Controlled Pivot or Controlled Hands respectively.<O
<O
So many unnecessary disagreements were arisen with Hand control pivot or pivot control hand, seeing or treating the word controlled as control.<O
<O
Con·trolled - adjective
Con·trol – Verb<O
<O
Just like Educated Hands (adjective with a noun)<O</O
Controlled Pivot<O</O
Controlled Hands<O</O
<O</O

Although Homer said you zero out the pivot, shoulder turn…in basic motion training, but it requires you have a follow-through body alignment, i.e. right shoulder down plane, hip cleared, weight shifted, or simply…whole body. With your hands at rest, you just can’t request your body to go to where should be. If you to ask a total beginner to go from standard address to impact, there will be a lot of works for you to do, controlled Pivot. Left or right arm…your choice, but you better monitor your hands (Ben Doyle’s Hands in my mind) instead of the clubhead. <O</O
<O</O

Flip release, controlled hands type of swing with pivot motion all in my mind.<O</O
<O</O

p.s. Sorry Brian for so many TGM literal stuff here but also want to have your opinion. <O</O