Overcooking axis-tilt vs. roundhousing....

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
Again, for the second week, I am playing with a couple of golfers that are scratch to plus 2.

Both are telling me that I do sooo much well but that I drop my right shoulder down waaaay toooo much on the down swing.

I've discussed this here with Jim and it's been said that it is a problem that can develop.

My question is.... the fix the golfers I play with are showing me seems to be roundhousing. When I try to explain axis tilt, they blank out.

Yet, at the end of the day, the play beautifully and I am playing inconsistently. These guys are not hackers. They've been playing a long time and are good.

So....I am trying to understand the balance of proper axis tilt. Is there a thought to the path the right shoulder travels? When I try to stick it in my front pocket and stretch the left ribs, I am overdoing it.....or am I????

I don't understand the down and out of the right shoulder plane. Please help!
 
P

puttmad

New
Bill,
Do your angles look anything like these (pics 5 and 7)?

If they do, don't worry about it...:)
yellowshirt.jpg
 
P

puttmad

New
Bill,
As an afterthought, when you talk about stretching the left ribs, I found when I focussed on that it curtailed my pivot somewhat...
Once I simply focussed on compressing my right lower back muscles instead (at the same time as kicking my right butt cheek around with my right leg), it seemed to drive the pivot properly to a better finish...
Just a thought...:)
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
La, da, dee...

Simple solution:

Your SHOULDERS need to be the same amount—in degrees, as the amount—in degrees, as your axis is tilted to the right.

The guys who are drawing a blank on Axis Tilt have no idea they probably do it perfectly.

Bless their little hearts. ;)
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
I should add to this thread...

these guys I play with aren't busting my balls because I look funny to them. I am hitting bad shots because I drop my right shoulder too soon and too steep trying to create axis tilt....thus, I feel I am over-doing it.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Funny.

Bill,

I am sure you look funny, because the IDEA that your right shoulder goes toward the ball on the downswing IS easier to overcook than LEFT SHULDER UP AND BACK.

That's why I teach the left shoulder to more people.

Just try to get your left shoulder and left hip AS FAR FROM THE BALL AS YOU CAN AT IMPACT without your head moving up.
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
Kool!

Thanks!

PS...I am actually hitting pretty well over all. I just got into this funk of the right shoulder about 2 weeks ago.

I got into a habit of some strong pulls and saw that losing axis tilt was most of the cause. Focusing on a/t is what caused me to really over do it. So, I end up hitting 6-7 of 10 good shots and 3-4 bad ones. The bad ones are where I am getting the comments.
 
Last edited:
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Bill do a search for Turned Shoulder Plane, Snead, with Brian's name as the "author"

He put up a picture/audio of what the TSP is with pictures from the book as well as lines drawn on Snead. It's a good visual because you will see that the right shoulder needs to go down that line AT THAT ANGLE.

Too many people think it's just "dropping" the shoulder (which you are one of) and you are hanging back and can't transfer your weight. You need to learn that it goes "down and OUT" not just "down."

All of this is avoided, usually, because Brian teaches (i do as well 99% of the time) to move the left shoulder UP AND BACK. It gets results faster in all but 1% of cases. Of all the lessons i have ever given (which isn't a ton yet ;)) I have only had ONE STUDENT get better results with "right shoulder down/out."
 
Bill Miracle

Bill Miracle

New
Great explaination Jim...

will do the search.

Help me understand something.....from the top, do I still think of getting the left foot down (even if it is down) first? If so, where in the d/s does this thought of left shoulder up then out come in?
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Find the picture and you'll see how the right shoulder goes down/out and because of the way your body works, the left will go up/back.
 
P

puttmad

New
....

Jim Kobylinski said:
Find the picture and you'll see how the right shoulder goes down/out and because of the way your body works, the left will go up/back.
Click to expand...

Jim,
Have you ever read a book called "The Golf Secret" by Dr. H.A. Murray?

It was reprinted in the 50' and 60's. I think you can get a copy of it from Amazon or Ebay...

Very interesting little book which focusses on the left shoulder...worth a look.
 
bts

bts

New
Thank you very much!

Bill Miracle said:
Thanks!

PS...I am actually hitting pretty well over all. I just got into this funk of the right shoulder about 2 weeks ago.

I got into a habit of some strong pulls and saw that losing axis tilt was most of the cause. Focusing on a/t is what caused me to really over do it. So, I end up hitting 6-7 of 10 good shots and 3-4 bad ones. The bad ones are where I am getting the comments.
Click to expand...
Bingo, That's exactly what happen. Thank you very much.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
bts said:
Bingo, That's exactly what happen. Thank you very much.
Click to expand...

Can you "over do" axis tilt??

Heck yeah.

Can you "over do" right shoulder down plane?

Absolutely.

Can you "over do" right forearm on plane at address?

No doubt.

Can you "over do" angle of approach?

Yup, and you can do it to the point where you look like cartoon.

Can you "over do" hit the inside-aft quadrant?

Yes sir. I once hit a FLUSH long iron that didn't get airborne.
 
tongzilla

tongzilla

New
Brian Manzella said:
Can you "over do" axis tilt??

Heck yeah.

Can you "over do" right shoulder down plane?

Absolutely.

Can you "over do" right forearm on plane at address?

No doubt.

Can you "over do" angle of approach?

Yup, and you can do it to the point where you look like cartoon.

Can you "over do" hit the inside-aft quadrant?

Yes sir. I once hit a FLUSH long iron that didn't get airborne.
Click to expand...

interesting...

but would like to add the following...which doesn't contradict your previous points.

can you "over do" a flat left wrist? nope; it's either flat or not flat at impact.

can you "over do" tracing a straight plane line? nope; it's either bent or straight.
 
bts

bts

New
Not sure?

Brian Manzella said:
Can you "over do" axis tilt??

Heck yeah.

Can you "over do" right shoulder down plane?

Absolutely.

Can you "over do" right forearm on plane at address?

No doubt.

Can you "over do" angle of approach?

Yup, and you can do it to the point where you look like cartoon.

Can you "over do" hit the inside-aft quadrant?

Yes sir. I once hit a FLUSH long iron that didn't get airborne.
Click to expand...
Can you "over do" "sustain the lag" for your drive?

I'm not sure.
 
bts

bts

New
Why can't you?

tongzilla said:
interesting...

but would like to add the following...which doesn't contradict your previous points.

can you "over do" a flat left wrist? nope; it's either flat or not flat at impact.
Click to expand...
Why can't you, if you focus on doing a "flat left wrist", despite the result is "either flat or not flat at impact"?
can you "over do" tracing a straight plane line? nope; it's either bent or straight.
Click to expand...
Why can't you, if you focus on "tracing a straight plane line", despite the result is "either bent or straight"?
 
K

Kwagga

New
Please elaborate

Brian Manzella said:
Simple solution:

Your SHOULDERS need to be the same amount—in degrees, as the amount—in degrees, as your axis is tilted to the right.

The guys who are drawing a blank on Axis Tilt have no idea they probably do it perfectly.

Bless their little hearts. ;)
Click to expand...

Brian,

Can you please elaborate here, I take it axis tilt of the vertical and shoulders from horisontal ?

Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top