Plane Shifts
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
A set-up. But, so what.
They are wrong.
Moe has shifts.
Whether you define the plane as the shaft, the #3 pressure point through the sweetspot, or just the sweetspot, Moe Norman doesn't not swing the club on one plane from address through impact.
Absolutely NOT.
Of course, if you are selling "zero shift" then you say he has none. If you are selling hitting, you'll say he does that.
What a joke.
They are wrong.
Moe has shifts.
Whether you define the plane as the shaft, the #3 pressure point through the sweetspot, or just the sweetspot, Moe Norman doesn't not swing the club on one plane from address through impact.
Absolutely NOT.
Of course, if you are selling "zero shift" then you say he has none. If you are selling hitting, you'll say he does that.
What a joke.
Of course, if you are selling "zero shift" then you say he has none. If you are selling hitting, you'll say he does that.
What a joke.
No kidding. Everybody knows Moe was a Stack & Tilter.
birdie_man
New
Ha...
tongzilla
New
answer this please
Brian, answer this.
When guys think Moe Norman (and also Ben Hogan), has a zero shift swing, what do you think they are referring to? We know it's not zero shift, but they pick these swings out. So there must be something about these swings that make them think zero shift / one plane. Explain.
Brian, answer this.
When guys think Moe Norman (and also Ben Hogan), has a zero shift swing, what do you think they are referring to? We know it's not zero shift, but they pick these swings out. So there must be something about these swings that make them think zero shift / one plane. Explain.
theres a video hot chilli put up a while ago showing phil mickelson on the slow motion camera, with a plane indicator. before i was educated i believed if those planes matched up, it was a one-plane swng.
nothing to do with arm to shoulders, or plane shifts, but if the backswing path matched the downswing, it would be one-plane. i think thats why people believe hogan was a one planer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woRsFpkzxZQ
i believed if those planes matched up, it was a one-plane swng. nothing to do with arm to shoulders, or plane shifts, but if the backswing path matched the downswing, it would be one-plane. i think thats why people believe hogan was a one planer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woRsFpkzxZQ
Dariusz J.
New member
Zero shift is not possible in case of full swings because the elbow joint (as well as other joints in human body) cannot be moved in all directions.
I can see a zero shift in half-swings though.
Cheers
I can see a zero shift in half-swings though.
Cheers
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
When will everyone just get it a Zero Shift is non existant. Its just a fad expanded on by pop instruction ideas.
And for those TGM devotees the TGM President gave a presentation that said this at 2007 TGM AI Summit.
And for those TGM devotees the TGM President gave a presentation that said this at 2007 TGM AI Summit.
KOC
New
Great…when people out there talking about one plane swing, we have the "Complete Junk" thread with sexy voice from the host’s audio analysis of David Toms on ZERO Shift, we knew some junk then…Here is the link to review.
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4932&highlight=hardy
When other TGM instructor and TGM students are of opinion that Moe Norman swung a club with reference to Homer zero shift, we are now being told by Brian that they are all wrong and 4 barrels that Zero Shift is non existent and just a fad expanded on by pop instruction ideas.
TGM President…if you are seeing this, when will you discovery all those non-existent stuffs in the book to all A.I. or readers? How about a four barrels stroke?
Most importantly, as this is a thread for Brian Manzella only, I am not answering but asking…hope that this is not violated to the forum rule. In the below wood swing clip, Moe did not swing up to the Turned Shoulder Plane as defined by Brain, and also look like a total motion to me, what is the plane shift here? And final one, who is talking about Hitting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRfQpq36UE8
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4932&highlight=hardy
When other TGM instructor and TGM students are of opinion that Moe Norman swung a club with reference to Homer zero shift, we are now being told by Brian that they are all wrong and 4 barrels that Zero Shift is non existent and just a fad expanded on by pop instruction ideas.
TGM President…if you are seeing this, when will you discovery all those non-existent stuffs in the book to all A.I. or readers? How about a four barrels stroke?
Most importantly, as this is a thread for Brian Manzella only, I am not answering but asking…hope that this is not violated to the forum rule. In the below wood swing clip, Moe did not swing up to the Turned Shoulder Plane as defined by Brain, and also look like a total motion to me, what is the plane shift here? And final one, who is talking about Hitting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRfQpq36UE8
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Really?
KOC
New
Really...counter query
Thanks Brain for the Drawing. I appreciated that and is that a shift from hand plane to elbow plane?
However, it seems that based on your Manzella Matrix definitions, ELBOW PLANE - The angle drawn from the base point through where the right elbow socket would be at "orthodox" impact, the yellow line is drawn a lil' bit higher in Moe case.
Is there any difference in this drawing?
Also, in what case we can see the plane surface like this and not a straight line?
Finally, here is another forward view of Moe, properly not at right angle, what is your opinion?
http://rapidshare.com/files/116469581/moe.zip.html
Thanks Brain for the Drawing. I appreciated that and is that a shift from hand plane to elbow plane?
However, it seems that based on your Manzella Matrix definitions, ELBOW PLANE - The angle drawn from the base point through where the right elbow socket would be at "orthodox" impact, the yellow line is drawn a lil' bit higher in Moe case.
Is there any difference in this drawing?
Also, in what case we can see the plane surface like this and not a straight line?
Finally, here is another forward view of Moe, properly not at right angle, what is your opinion?
http://rapidshare.com/files/116469581/moe.zip.html
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Looks like a reverse shift to me. On one circle going back and a different circle going down but not to much . I'm looking at it in a 3-D state though
birdie_man
New
I'm no expert line drawer..........
But Mayfair's right forearm may be below 'orthodox'...........(in-line with the shaft)..........
Dunno. (but my guess is it surely has to do with it)
But Mayfair's right forearm may be below 'orthodox'...........(in-line with the shaft)..........
Dunno. (but my guess is it surely has to do with it)
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Dear Brain,
How about David Toms? Zero shift or not? Also, is it possible a zero shift in this swing clip where I swear the top is the top from what I captured using software and not by manual pause method?
Toms sets up on the elbow plane and immediately shifts to the squared shoulder plane.
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