Push Fades

[brucifer]

Hi guys,

Recently a pro friend got me into the TGM and then Brian M.
I subsequently bought Confessions and NSA which have been fantastic at diluting some of the complex TGM stuff for me into something visual. Lets face it, the pics of that lady in the yellow book aren't great

Anyway, after watching I had been hitting really well, straight and long, with the one thought in my head from Confessions, uncock and roll, which I was consciously doing, but it worked.

Now tho, maybe through some over learning, I am hitting push/block fades and slices. They aren't starting severly right, so think my plane isn't too bad.
Also, not taking the same divots, in fact sometimes none at all.

Causes??

My mate thinks I'm not getting my right shoulder forward on the downswing, just down and lateral.

I think I'm maybe uncocking the left, but not rolling.

Are these 2 things related? Do they sound like possible valid and common causes for push slices and blocks?

Any help or thoughts, greatly appreciated

B

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You are swinging too far to the right with a very open clubface and are push fading it.

Close the face a bit more and feel like you are steeper on the downswing. Make sure you haven't swayed off the ball in your backswing.

 

[brucifer]

Jim,

Thanks, I will try that.

I have always swayed a bit too much with my pivot and legs.
Maybe its time to iron that out now.

B

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,

Thanks, I will try that.

I have always swayed a bit too much with my pivot and legs.
Maybe its time to iron that out now.

B

If you sway to far off the ball on the backswing, you will never get back in the right position and will always swing too far right and either push the ball or you will add a flip and then will start drawing/hooking the ball.

 

[brucifer]

Jim,
I was at the range earlier.
I notice that when I hit half shots/pitches, I tend to shank them as well.
Does that sound along the same lines as what I'm already experiencing?

For background, prior to all this I had been doing the thumbs up/thumbs down drill and initially it was working magic, as I just focused on uncocking the left hand at impact and was flat thru impact.

When I got home I felt maybe I was swinging too far round my body?

When I tried to rotate the club face closed I ended up pulling the ball a lot.
I have a problem in trying NOT to come over the top whilst rotating the clubface, does that sound familiar?

Sorry to bombard you, but I am a 14 handicapper who after watching NSA and Confessions had a couple of 6 over rounds, so am gutted I've lost it so soon....

B

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Go back and hit those pitch/chip shots with your RIGHT THUMB OFF THE CLUB and report back.

 

[pecky987]

Go back and hit those pitch/chip shots with your RIGHT THUMB OFF THE CLUB and report back.

what does that do btw jim? i've used the 'taking the right forefinger off the grip' when ever i start leaving the face open. not sure what the thumb would do though. less throwaway?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

what does that do btw jim? i've used the 'taking the right forefinger off the grip' when ever i start leaving the face open. not sure what the thumb would do though. less throwaway?

Teaches people sweet spot awareness and won't let them lag the hosel. It's a quick fix to show people they are lagging the hosel when they are shanking it. If you try to lag the hosel with your right thumb off the club the club would come out of your hand through the impact area. Brain doesn't allow that to happen most times and thus you lag the sweetspot and boom

 

[brucifer]

Jim,

Great stuff, that worked great for the shanking on non full shots.

I actually now put the right thumb barely on for chips/small pitches.

Still a bit erratic with full swing now.

I noticed that towards the end of my round yesterday that I was using my arms on the backswing, and not making enough use of pivot and shoulder turn, which when I did started to improve things a bit.

Does that sound right?

Last couple of weeks I had the feeling of a lot of power and could really go after some shots, now I feel restricted, maybe trapped.

I'm taking a video this morning.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Sounds me like your pivot slowed down somehow and your arms/hands starting taking over which can always lead to less power and consistency.

Work on clubface control and your pivot.

 

[brucifer]

Jim,

Here's a vid, I know there is a lot wrong, now I see it myself. Its very far from perfect, but one step at a time.
I've always done that move with my right leg on the backswing, but I don't think thats the major problem.

I seem to be using my shoulders to drag my left arm across my chest and my hands are getting stuck way behind, and the sequencing is off.

I really need to get my hands on front of me or something to give me room.

Any drills for that? The fiddle drill?

Face On

DTL

B

 

[brucifer]

Just watched NSA again, and looking at my swing, I think I really need to get that right elbow tucked in (pitch position) while driving down with the right shoulder towards the ball.

I may be too flat on the backswing too, which is maybe not allowing me the room.

What do you reckon?

 

[Kevin Shields]

I know you're talking to Jim but you're right about the right shoulder. It's definately under. It needs more "out". You're a little under the sweetspot coming into the ball as well.

 

[brucifer]

Kevin,

Thanks for that, any opinion is welcome. Jim was doing his best with no video, but he's most likely out on the course right now, and me being in Northern Ireland we've got time difference to deal with

By Under the sweetspot, do you mean lagging the hosel, should I use "twistaway" a bit to close face?

I will also try and move that shoulder on the correct 3D plane, down/out/forward, think I've only got it down.

Its good to get an opinion before I go ingraining something wrong.

Thanks,
B

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i'm actually at work in corporate america, will get to this later lol

 

[birdie_man]

At work.........on the forum...................eeek sounds like me.

I think I need a new profession. (more golf-ish)

PGA Tour soon though.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Those looked like pretty good swings, the camera is at a slight angle pointing to the right so it's going to make you look more layed off than you are and also make you look more underplane than you really are.

From what i can see, you will have trouble swinging a bit right with your swing at times and you'll hit a push-push fade. To help correct feel A LITTLE more "out" then "down" at the top of the backswing and you should be ok.

 

[brucifer]

Thanks Jim,

A lack of divot in both shots too. Probably still a wee bit flippy.

But get that right shoulder in right place first.

Will get back to you guys!

Time for me to start work, gets in the way a bit

 

[lookingtolearn]

I'm certainly no expert, but have you tried using more of a mid-body address position (hands back, butt of club pointed at belt buckle)? This helps some people from taking the club back too far inside. It looks like you have a good, sharp hip turn, so your club should be a bit "under plane" going back, but maybe taking it a little less inside would keep you from swinging too far to the right on the downswing.
Just a thought.

 

[brucifer]

My friend keeps saying that to me too.

I definitely address it in an impact hands manner.

I finally worked out what was causing the major issues.

Basically, as I swung down to the ball I was allowing my hands to go along the plane of the target line through it, as opposed to more round my body to the left in a curve.

This is why I was pushing it and why I was throwing the hosel at the ball and shanking it more frequently than before.

Just back in and played great with that thought and also keeping the right shoulder going out as suggested.

"Those hands have gotta go to school" as Ben Doyle says. Mine were like two Australian sheepdogs! haha

But these other elements people have kindly suggested need work too, so I really appreciate the advice.

Thanks,

B