Short game help

[benhogan55]

Does anyone have a good short game practice regime?
Any guru in particular that has shown some success?

I feel very comfortable with my swing, but not scoring. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I practice my "3's". 3 ways to take it back. Inside, parallel, and outside the target line. Then 3 ways to take it thru. Full roll, half roll, and reverse roll. I practice those from all sorts of lies. Then i practice a big flop and a "putt chip". That about covers evry situatuion I'll come across.

 

[benhogan55]

I practice my "3's". 3 ways to take it back. Inside, parallel, and outside the target line. Then 3 ways to take it thru. Full roll, half roll, and reverse roll. I practice those from all sorts of lies. Then i practice a big flop and a "putt chip". That about covers evry situatuion I'll come across.

What about putting?

 

[multi]

I practice my "3's". 3 ways to take it back. Inside, parallel, and outside the target line. Then 3 ways to take it thru. Full roll, half roll, and reverse roll. I practice those from all sorts of lies. Then i practice a big flop and a "putt chip". That about covers evry situatuion I'll come across.

3s sounds good, I practice "2"s then, since I practice square, open stances and full or reverse roll. What is inside good for? Also, never really knew what defined a flop anyway, I fool around sometimes when I have to go really short and stop with really open face/stance, sliding the clubhead under the ball, is that a flop?

But yeah, how about putting? Mine seem more crappy then usual lately. I'm trying to escape hackerdom so my whole game is pretty crappy .

 

[Kevin Shields]

What about putting?

I suck

 

[Kevin Shields]

3s sounds good, I practice "2"s then, since I practice square, open stances and full or reverse roll. What is inside good for? Also, never really knew what defined a flop anyway, I fool around sometimes when I have to go really short and stop with really open face/stance, sliding the clubhead under the ball, is that a flop?

But yeah, how about putting? Mine seem more crappy then usual lately. I'm trying to escape hackerdom so my whole game is pretty crappy .

Yeah, id say that pretty well defines a flop. Taking it back inside with a full roll is extra insurance that you'll get a low trajectory low spin running shot. I was kidding about putting. I'm working on the Sam Puttlab with Matt Kluck (from this forum) to get some better results.

 

[multi]

Is there any specifics to practicing putting besides just go to the green and hit a lot of balls? I don't think my putting setup or stroke itself is consistent, any tips on that. I hit a lot of 2 putts and minimal 3 putts other day but like half of the 2 putts were around 5 feet where you should be able to birdie or save par (or bogey ) but I end up with par/bogey/double all the damn time. Course the next time I played I 3 putted half the holes *shrug*. I'm looking to make my putting more consistent though.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Is there any specifics to practicing putting besides just go to the green and hit a lot of balls? I don't think my putting setup or stroke itself is consistent, any tips on that. I hit a lot of 2 putts and minimal 3 putts other day but like half of the 2 putts were around 5 feet where you should be able to birdie or save par (or bogey ) but I end up with par/bogey/double all the damn time. Course the next time I played I 3 putted half the holes *shrug*. I'm looking to make my putting more consistent though.

Start with a tempo primer!
Meaning work at getting the tempo of your stroke very consistent from stroke to stroke, without then with a target, then to different types of targets, ie uphill, downhill, sidehill.

Then I would work at rolloing the ball straight from your set up. Put a line around your ball, and try to putt it end over end such that the line stays visible(no wobble). Again, different targets, and not too much focus initially on makes.

Aiming and reading will evolve from those two skills!

 

[Robbohank]

Damon - do you "putt the gap"? I've been trying to work more on moving the ball up an inch or two from middle of stance while still starting the stroke at low point (middle of my stance). It's early in my doing it but I find my eyes want to go to the ball at the start of the stroke rather than the putter face. Is it just a matter of getting comfortable with it?

Robbo

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Start with a tempo primer!
Meaning work at getting the tempo of your stroke very consistent from stroke to stroke, without then with a target, then to different types of targets, ie uphill, downhill, sidehill.

Then I would work at rolloing the ball straight from your set up. Put a line around your ball, and try to putt it end over end such that the line stays visible(no wobble). Again, different targets, and not too much focus initially on makes.

Aiming and reading will evolve from those two skills!

The key thing in Damon's statement is the tempo. I have developed a small method and hitting putts with your eyes closed to find that tempo for you. You have to trust your brain to do it for you. It will "find" that tempo. Then just repeat when you have them open.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Damon - do you "putt the gap"? I've been trying to work more on moving the ball up an inch or two from middle of stance while still starting the stroke at low point (middle of my stance). It's early in my doing it but I find my eyes want to go to the ball at the start of the stroke rather than the putter face. Is it just a matter of getting comfortable with it?

Robbo

I used to.

I did that for about a year, and gradually got used to it.

What happened and what I took from that idea was that I learnt to de-focus my vision just prior to hitting the putt. So now I am in more of a feel mode when I putt, with kind of blanked out vision.

That is a bit different from what Jim is doing. Closing your eyes is a good drill on the practice green for creating a feel, but I would not recommend it during play. It shuts your balance(inner ear balance) down a bit. For a shoulders oriented stroke where there is a fair bit of upper body movement, you want to have every resource available to counter-balance the stroke.

 

[Robbohank]

Understood. I find I still wrestle a bit with allowing the gravity-based pendulum stroke to happen with the ball "there". I can see where putting "the gap" can help get with that. "Blanked out vision" is another good option... similar to where I fool myself into imagining the ball doesn't exist.

 

[Damon Lucas]

I wouldn't worry too much about perfecting the gravity stroke, for a couple of reasons,

1. It is only one of several skills needed, and perfectionism is dangerous if misapplied,
2. There are most likely other influences anyway....A friend of mine described to me that along with gravity, there are 'translational' forces at work in the downstroke, meaning muscular influences on some level.

Damon

 

[multi]

Start with a tempo primer!
Meaning work at getting the tempo of your stroke very consistent from stroke to stroke, without then with a target, then to different types of targets, ie uphill, downhill, sidehill.

Then I would work at rolloing the ball straight from your set up. Put a line around your ball, and try to putt it end over end such that the line stays visible(no wobble). Again, different targets, and not too much focus initially on makes.

Aiming and reading will evolve from those two skills!

Thanks for the reply, I've actually been working on my tempo though I seem to forget it when I'm on the course. Also should any focus be put on setup? Sometimes I feel my backswing get messed up because I setup too close/far from the ball and have to stop my stroke and try again. I wonder why I can't get a consistent setup, it happens in my full swing as well, so I feel like I always have to take some practice strokes and adjust my setup according to feel.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Thanks for the reply, I've actually been working on my tempo though I seem to forget it when I'm on the course. Also should any focus be put on setup? Sometimes I feel my backswing get messed up because I setup too close/far from the ball and have to stop my stroke and try again. I wonder why I can't get a consistent setup, it happens in my full swing as well, so I feel like I always have to take some practice strokes and adjust my setup according to feel.

Definitely!

Without a putter,

Adopt a comfortable posture with your weight towards the balls of the feet, and the top of your spine as close to parallel to the ground as you can. The spine can bend in several ways to achieve this.

Get your eyes looking straight at the ball, and your arms hanging with your elbows below your shoulders, and hands a little outside of that.

That set up should give you an idea as to what length/lie your putter should be. Most people just accept the putter off the rack, and most fitters fit your posture to their favourite putters. Should be the other way around.

This set up is a good starting point for someone at a loss, or someone who is ready to work at this kind of stroke for a while, or beginners.

Remember that there are plenty of good putters whose strokes start from very different postures than that desribed above.

Damon

 

[tongzilla]

I wouldn't worry too much about perfecting the gravity stroke, for a couple of reasons,

1. It is only one of several skills needed, and perfectionism is dangerous if misapplied,
2. There are most likely other influences anyway....A friend of mine described to me that along with gravity, there are 'translational' forces at work in the downstroke, meaning muscular influences on some level.

Damon

Exactly!
There are so many other things too...like the putter is not hung vertical like it's often demonstrated when trying to show a pendulum stroke.

I asked GM about this in person during one of his talks. He basically just said it doesn't matter and kept going on about gravity's tempo...

 

[self-mastery]

Someone teach me how to stop reading too much break into every putt.

I had my first round in a few months. Thank the Lord for knowing how to chip because I putted so so, and pitched the ball like a 30 handicap.

Someone teach me how to pitch from tight lies onto rock hard greens.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Exactly!
There are so many other things too...like the putter is not hung vertical like it's often demonstrated when trying to show a pendulum stroke.

I asked GM about this in person during one of his talks. He basically just said it doesn't matter and kept going on about gravity's tempo...

Tong,

One of the main rasons he would say that it doesn't matter is because of the weight of the torso plus arms relative to the putter. When people talk about gravity they think only about the putter and its heft, and neglect how much the weight of the shoulders and the arms influences the stroke. So he would say that the weight of the bodymoving in space would override the weight of the shaft and putterhead.

In a similiar vein, people think that because the club sits on an angle, the shaft MUST move on that angle or plane(in the same breath they start talking about a shoulder plane putting stroke and remove any credibility they may have built up with their initial assumption). This is because people have become so used to thinking about the club moves in putting that they neglect how the body moves or could move.

For an easy example, think about Isao Aoki. He had possible the most extreme shaft angle of anyone I can remember, yet 'moved' the putter on which angle?

 

[benhogan55]

Definitely!

Without a putter,

Adopt a comfortable posture with your weight towards the balls of the feet, and the top of your spine as close to parallel to the ground as you can. The spine can bend in several ways to achieve this.

Get your eyes looking straight at the ball, and your arms hanging with your elbows below your shoulders, and hands a little outside of that.

That set up should give you an idea as to what length/lie your putter should be. Most people just accept the putter off the rack, and most fitters fit your posture to their favourite putters. Should be the other way around.

This set up is a good starting point for someone at a loss, or someone who is ready to work at this kind of stroke for a while, or beginners.

Remember that there are plenty of good putters whose strokes start from very different postures than that desribed above.

Damon

Seems my setup is ok..I have a tendency to deaccel. I don't make enough of the midrangers (8-12 feet) I don't 3 putt often and the 3 footers don't bother me. Any tips on the 10 footers?

 

[multi]

Definitely!

Without a putter,

Adopt a comfortable posture with your weight towards the balls of the feet, and the top of your spine as close to parallel to the ground as you can. The spine can bend in several ways to achieve this.

Get your eyes looking straight at the ball, and your arms hanging with your elbows below your shoulders, and hands a little outside of that.

That set up should give you an idea as to what length/lie your putter should be. Most people just accept the putter off the rack, and most fitters fit your posture to their favourite putters. Should be the other way around.

This set up is a good starting point for someone at a loss, or someone who is ready to work at this kind of stroke for a while, or beginners.

Remember that there are plenty of good putters whose strokes start from very different postures than that desribed above.

Damon

Thanks Damon I tried this and it seems that I might a little shorter and more upright putter! Anyway, do you have any data/thoughts on the different types of heads, hosel locations, etc. and they're advantages/disadvantages? Or is all whatever you feel comfortable looking at?