swing sequence to review

[vjcapron]

This was taken this morning before work on a cheap digital camera. Front view. I'll post the down-the-line view tomorrow.

Don't hold back. Let me know where improvements could be made.

If anyone would like to take a swag at nailing down some of the component variations, I would appreciate it.

http://208.4.16.129/20051003_frontview.avi

If link doesn't work, right-click and do a "save target as.." to download.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

from the frames i could tell looks pretty good!

 

[MizunoJoe]

This is first rate. It's a 3-barrel Swing with turn/slide/turn hip action and STT. I like the approach to the ball, setup, and two stage waggle. Some might criticize the head drop through impact, but not me - lots of good players do it. By the way, the shot was well struck - you can tell by the club twirl after the finish.

 

[birdie_man]

Looks good man. Good swing.

 

[rwh]

A classic swinging procedure. Beautiful horizontal hinging rhythm. I especially like the stationary head which rotates but doesn't leave its position in the middle of the feet until after follow-through.

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

This is first rate. It's a 3-barrel Swing with turn/slide/turn hip action and STT. I like the approach to the ball, setup, and two stage waggle. Some might criticize the head drop through impact, but not me - lots of good players do it. By the way, the shot was well struck - you can tell by the club twirl after the finish.

Gents, thanks for the positive commentary.

What's the "STT" stand for?

I'll post the down-the-line view later today. You guys won't be as kind when you see the plane shifts.

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

This is first rate. It's a 3-barrel Swing with turn/slide/turn hip action and STT. I like the approach to the ball, setup, and two stage waggle. Some might criticize the head drop through impact, but not me - lots of good players do it. By the way, the shot was well struck - you can tell by the club twirl after the finish.

I'll explain the 2-stage waggle: the initial waggles are done through subconscious habit and I'm just trying to get a feel for the clubhead. The longer waggle that you saw before I "pulled the trigger" was my attempt to rehearse getting the club from hands only plane onto the turned shoulder plane angle.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by vjcapron

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

This is first rate. It's a 3-barrel Swing with turn/slide/turn hip action and STT. I like the approach to the ball, setup, and two stage waggle. Some might criticize the head drop through impact, but not me - lots of good players do it. By the way, the shot was well struck - you can tell by the club twirl after the finish.

Gents, thanks for the positive commentary.

What's the "STT" stand for?

I'll post the down-the-line view later today. You guys won't be as kind when you see the plane shifts.

vj,

STT is short for Shoulder Turn Takeaway as opposed to RFP which means Right Forearm Pickup. In other words, the shoulders power the BS as opposed to taking the right forearm back, up, and in and letting the shoulders respond.

I look forward to the down-line view, and plane shifts or not, I'd bet your a +1 or better.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by vjcapron

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

This is first rate. It's a 3-barrel Swing with turn/slide/turn hip action and STT. I like the approach to the ball, setup, and two stage waggle. Some might criticize the head drop through impact, but not me - lots of good players do it. By the way, the shot was well struck - you can tell by the club twirl after the finish.

I'll explain the 2-stage waggle: the initial waggles are done through subconscious habit and I'm just trying to get a feel for the clubhead. The longer waggle that you saw before I "pulled the trigger" was my attempt to rehearse getting the club from hands only plane onto the turned shoulder plane angle.

Is the long waggle done with the shoulders or arms/hands?

 

[vjcapron]

Here's the link to a down-the-line swing taken this afternoon after work. http://208.4.16.129/20051005.avi

If you don't have time to download it, below are some crappy screen shots that I took along with my comments. The video is much clearer than the screenshots.

In summary, I think I have good rhythm, balance, and a fairly steady head. I also have a flat left wrist and decent lag - not max trigger delay or anything like that - but I have the clubhead trailing my hands post impact.

I need that elusive straight plane line from the top down to impact. See below.

Again, don't hold back...your input is appreciated.

address - balanced.

takeaway - a little under plane - pretty good though - club tracking pretty much up the shaft plane angle.

halfway back - on plane - shifted up to elbow plane. Feel and Real sure aren't the same. In this swing I was attempting to "feel" like I was taking the club up the green line, turned shoulder plane. Homer says the elbow plane is used primarily subconsciously. He's right in this case.

top - on plane and pretty close to my desired plane angle - the turned shoulder plane angle. I like what I see up to this point.

end - reaching a bit too far. Club laid off a little. Not sure why the club gets laid-off like this. Chronic problem.

Here's where it gets interesting - an off plane start down. I am attempting</u> to swing the club straight down turned shoulder plane (green line). It's no where close.

Grip end of club on elbow plane, clubhead on hands plane. By impact this gets corrected.

right forearm and clubshaft perfectly on elbow plane.

shaft on-plane on the other side of the ball.

balanced at the finish.

 

[nevermind]

On your waggles. It looks like your rehearsing a flip of the hands. It doesn't seem to be impacting on the actual swing, but if your going to waggle you might as well make it a rehearsal of the wrist alignments you actually want during the swing.

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by nevermind

On your waggles. It looks like your rehearsing a flip of the hands. It doesn't seem to be impacting on the actual swing, but if your going to waggle you might as well make it a rehearsal of the wrist alignments you actually want during the swing.

I knew I would get some comments about that. I was rehearsing a drill that I have been using to eliminate excess plane shifts. I am attempting to get the club as quickly as I can onto turned shoulder plane and then I want to keep the club on that plane angle as I start down.

I agree that the waggles looked a little out of control in this footage, but I don't waggle like that on the course.

By the way, the drill has helped me remove one excess plane shift. I used to re-route on the downswing all the way back down to hands plane, now I am at elbow plane at impact.

 

[nevermind]

sounds like your a man on a mission, and so far so good. congrats.

I'll be intersted to hear what Brain says, if he replies. It looks like your comfortable with the elbow plane at impact, and a double shift might be the go, but you say you've recently come from the hands only plane, so maybe your a good canditate to keep going all the way to the TSP. I would think that if your intent on using the TSP, then you should get the shaft and hands at least up to the elbow plane at address.

BTW. If you ever get to a zero shift on the TSP, make sure to post a down the line for us. I'm yet to see one of those, ever.

 

[MizunoJoe]

Using a laser trainer would help you feel what it's like to get on and stay on the TSP. But why don't you want to approach the ball on a shallower plane? There are very few tour players who don't. Check this out

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructi...instruction/swingsequences/gd200312price.html

The difference is that Price goes to a shallower plane but the shaft still points to the target line. In your case, the shaft points far outside the target line.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by nevermind

sounds like your a man on a mission, and so far so good. congrats.

I'll be intersted to hear what Brain says, if he replies. It looks like your comfortable with the elbow plane at impact, and a double shift might be the go, but you say you've recently come from the hands only plane, so maybe your a good canditate to keep going all the way to the TSP. I would think that if your intent on using the TSP, then you should get the shaft and hands at least up to the elbow plane at address.

BTW. If you ever get to a zero shift on the TSP, make sure to post a down the line for us. I'm yet to see one of those, ever.

Here you go

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructi...ruction/swingsequences/gd200504mickelson.html

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by nevermind

sounds like your a man on a mission, and so far so good. congrats.

I'll be intersted to hear what Brain says, if he replies. It looks like your comfortable with the elbow plane at impact, and a double shift might be the go, but you say you've recently come from the hands only plane, so maybe your a good canditate to keep going all the way to the TSP. I would think that if your intent on using the TSP, then you should get the shaft and hands at least up to the elbow plane at address.

BTW. If you ever get to a zero shift on the TSP, make sure to post a down the line for us. I'm yet to see one of those, ever.

Here you go

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructi...ruction/swingsequences/gd200504mickelson.html

Thanks Mizuno Joe. The top right photo of Phil that is just above the "Maintain Width" caption is exactly what I want to look like starting down.

When you look at Phil's swing in the TGM perspective of the "natural planes" and, more specifically, the turned shoulder plane, it doesn't get much better. Phil is awesome.

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

Using a laser trainer would help you feel what it's like to get on and stay on the TSP. But why don't you want to approach the ball on a shallower plane? There are very few tour players who don't. Check this out

http://www.golfdigest.com/instructi...instruction/swingsequences/gd200312price.html

The difference is that Price goes to a shallower plane but the shaft still points to the target line. In your case, the shaft points far outside the target line.

It's funny that you bring up Nick Price, since he was my swing model for way too many years. I believe that you would have to hit hundreds to thousands of balls per week and be in perfect synchronization to use it effectively in competition.

I now think a swing with numerous plane shifts is a high maintenance swing. I don't have the time to maintain it anymore, but I still want to play at the level of top amateur players.

Also, I hate hooking the ball. A shallower approach leads to me working the ball too much right-to-left. Just getting to elbow plane at impact along with the corresponding steeper approach has really tightened my shot dispersion pattern.

One more thing:
Chuck Evans, another TGM GSED, has been quoted to say that Homer said if the general public would simply do 3 things, they wouldn't need to buy his book. The three things were: 1.) take the club up turned shoulder plane 2.) take the club down turned shoulder plane and 3.) add an appropriate hinge action for the desired ball flight.

I'm going to try and get as close to that ideal as is physically possible for me.

 

[vjcapron]

quote:Originally posted by nevermind

I would think that if your intent on using the TSP, then you should get the shaft and hands at least up to the elbow plane at address.

That makes good sense and it would be removing one more plane shift. If I can do that, the shift from elbow to TSP, back to elbow plane wouldn't be too bad. I'll give that a shot later this week.

 

[nevermind]

Now I know my lines ar less than perfect, but they aint that bad! MizJoe, even if every frame after address was on the TSP, still it would fail the TGM definition of a zero shift. Looks like single shift in this sequence to me.

So here comes my old question. How could Phil possibly have his shaft and rear forearm on the TSP at impact without having his rear arm VERY close, to fully extended. Is there no disadvantage in having soooo little rear arm bend at impact?

vjcapron, thought you might be interested, but just ask and I'll move this discussion to another thread.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

um....i know someone else who someone else who primarily uses the TSP

http://www.manzellagolfforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1905&SearchTerms=junk