Talk me off the ledge ...

[dolanski]

or at least from selling my golf clubs.

I've been following this forum for a couple years now. I own all the videos and I practice. I've improved a lot. But I was pretty discouraged after taking video today and seeing that I was still flipping and still severely OTT. I really thought the flip would be gone because I've been hitting--particularly my irons--a lot better. I've gained about 20-30 yards with each club, and this week I reached two par 5s in two, the first time I've ever done that (they were around 530 yards each). I know it's hard to say w/out seeing my earlier swing, but am I just flipping it better now?

Anyway, any suggestions for improvement would be much appreciated. And if I do anything well that would be good to know too.

My misses tend to be pulls and pull hooks, especially with the driver. I used to be a really bad slicer, and though I hit the occasional cut, I really don't slice anymore. I feel sometimes like I'm the coach mentioned in NSA2.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVwewq6mG0[/media]

 

[Matt Bryda]

dolanski,
Make your stance narrower.
Make more of a soft draw backswing. Looks like you over rotate the left arm wedge going back and the whole way down you are trying to recover from that backswing.

Matt

 

[nwb]

Hi mate - I am sure that many others better than I will chime in here but there is way too much head and weight movement to the right in the backswing imo. Not advocating stack and tilt by any means but keeping the weight between the feet would stop some of that flipping. You are very behind the ball at impact and this must be causing the hands to flip.

cheers

 

[tobell]

Flippingout

Look at your left foot at address then again at finish. I would try a few shots where you started with the left foot flared a bit more open at address. Not saying open your stance..just more flare from the left knee down to the foot. I think Hogan suggested a specific number of degrees..something like 22. Experiment, but maybe 25-30 degrees...somewhere closer to where is ends up at finish.

This will change your sequencing....alter the kinetic chain...and help stop the flip.

 

[birly-shirly]

what are you doing on that ledge?

who cares what it looks like on video? sounds like you're hitting it better, and especially that you're successfully changing your ballflight pattern from a slice to a draw. you should be patting yourself on the back, not doing yourself down.

and then you should be thinking about whether your draw ballflight is something you need to fix. a flip could be part of that, or it could be way down the list of things that you need to tackle.

 

[JThompson]

Ok. Let me take a shot at this.

You are very athletic and are capable of making a tour like swing with proper instruction and practice. Here some things that I think you should work on.

-Narrow your stance. Just a little.

-On your back swing make sure you have a flat left wrist. I check that and double check that. Every time you play!

-A key for me getting rid of my flip was to practice proper release of the club. For so long I tried to hold off the release. Didn't work. I found that rehearsing the proper release worked better. Here is what I mean. . . It appears you are actively straightening your right wrist down into the ball. This will cause a flip every time! Instead rehearse straightening your right wrist about 4 or 5 inches after the ball. The feeling is like you release all your right side energy through the ball and after rather then down to the ball. Make sense? With the proper grip, (see manzella neutral in NSA2) this will give your right pointer finger the sensation pressure. Maintain that pressure through the ball and release it into the ground just AFTER (4 or 5 inches) the club head passes ball.

Here is another way to practice so your hands feel the sensation i am talking about. With a ball. Just like you are setting up for a normal shot. Go to address and place your hands and pivot in proper impact position. Now, by just moving your wrists (nothing moves but the hands and club) hit the ball as firmly as you can. You'll notice that pressure on the right pointer finger and how you straighten you right wrist through the ball and not down to the ball.

Does any of that makes sense. It is the best way I can describe the sensations I had while trying to cure a flip.

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nESDTgMck0U&hl=en_US&fs=1&hd=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nESDTgMck0U&hl=en_US&fs=1&hd=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>

Everyone has seen this a thousand times. But it is a good illustration of the point I am trying to make. Tiger is actively straightening his right wrist through the ball. And there is a bunch of pressure on his right pointer finger when he does this. I think the best way for you to achieve some forward shaft at impact is to practice forcefully releasing your right wrist just after the ball. Hope this helps.

 

[Shankapotamus]

This might get me in trouble but....

Mr. dolanski...
I am obviously new to this site, and stick to lurking. The advise that I am about to give you may get me in hot water with the regulars here, including the B-Man himself, but it sickens me to see someone with your athletic ability struggle and want to give up on this great game. What I am about to tell you worked for me. I no longer come over the top, and I am very consistent with the driver... very straight with a slight draw. My bad miss is a push cut when I try to over swing. I have seen the two things I am about to share get bashed on this form, but here goes anyway...

# 1) Get yourself a copy of the September 2009 issue of Golf Digest. It is the one with Arnold Palmer on the cover. In there is an article by Steve Atherton. Basically, the key advice is to get the shoulder turn in the backswing done early via a one piece take away. He than says that that sets you up to make the key move down which is a dropping in of the right shoulder. Now I know that the swing starts from the ground up, but beyond a shadow of a doubt, getting your right shoulder to do the proper thing will get you coming at that little ball from the inside. Your take away is ALL ARMS from the get go.

P.S. there is also a short video on the Golf Digest web site in their instruction section that specifically goes with this article. It deals with getting the club face squared at impact, but it sounds like you have a handle on that. To find the video, do a search for "Atherton slice" in the instruction section.

# 2) This one is really going to get me in trouble, but FOR SURE, it will fix your take away problem. Get the Medicus duel hinge 460 driver. I do not advocate hitting balls it because as Brian and others have said, you can keep the darn thing in one piece, (not broken), and still hit really bad shots, but I do advocate using it to learn a good one piece take away. You can also make a full swing with it while dropping in that right shoulder and it will stay together.

OK folks, bring it on!

 

[Chip Putterman]

No offense Shank, but Golf Digest has messed up more swings than Hank Haney. Also, the Medicus is garbage. Do you think Jim Furyk could swing a Medicus?
Dolanski, from the video, you seem like a tall, athletic fellow. You can probably generate decent clubhead speed from gravity alone. You don't need to lunge to the right on your backswing. I would suggest that you narrow your right foot a bit and leave more weight on the left side on the takeaway. Let us know how you do.

 

[Shankapotamus]

No offense taken Chip. However, I do not see instructors lining up to teach Jim Furyk's swing. Also, I do not have a subscription to Golf Digest. I am just conveying what worked for me, a chronic over the topper.

Get the shoulder turn done early in the backswing (one piece take away... i.e. Medicus), drop in the right shoulder, and square the clubface = straight, straight, straight.

And to JThompson, thank you for posting that Tiger YouTube Vid. I had never seen it before. Is that a freakin' thing of beauty or what? (He's not my favorite tour pro anymore, that's now Bubba, but I still want to see him come back and DOMINATE!).... Sorry 'bout going off topic.