That Over-the-Top move...

[c21heel]

has reared its ugly head once again in my swing. I've tried axis tilt, moving the left shoulder up, moving the right shoulder down, and bumping the hips but still get above the plane on the downswing (Confirmed on Video). In additon to the ones that I have mentioned above, anyone else care to add a few home remedies for correcting the over-the-top move? If so, please post them for all to review and enjoy! Thanks!

By the way, the educated hands thing has never worked for me; I was educated in North Carolina .

 

[Spike]

has reared its ugly head once again in my swing. I've tried axis tilt, moving the left shoulder up, moving the right shoulder down, and bumping the hips but still get above the plane on the downswing (Confirmed on Video). In additon to the ones that I have mentioned above, anyone else care to add a few home remedies for correcting the over-the-top move? If so, please post them for all to review and enjoy! Thanks!

By the way, the educated hands thing has never worked for me; I was educated in North Carolina .

Hi c21heel,

Without seeing the video it would be tough to really advise...but, have you tried moving the hands and arms down first to start the bump, tilt and shoulder actions?

just a thought

 

[Perfect Impact]

Have you tried 'freeze framing' your transition: i.e., stop at the top, and intentionally start DOWN with your right elbow and hands and shoulder, WITHOUT any turn whatsoever, simultaneously with shifting your left hip to the left WITHOUT any turn whatsoever. This is a simultaneous single movement in which the shoulders bring the arms down on plane. By doing very very short swings at first you put no strain on your body as you "relearn" or embed what probably is a new thing. You are getting at the very heart of the issue, which is the only place it can be done.

If there is anything in your grip or top position that exerts unwanted pressure OUTward, you need to change that, such as a grip that prevents a relaxed top-of-swing-position, or a too-wound-up-shoulder-turn. A top of swing position is comfortable, not a tense springloaded cannon. See if thinking "up", not "around" at the top helps: could be you are so much out of position that the place you go to forces the overthetop rebound. That's usually where the culprit has gotten in.

 

[tongzilla]

Brian, can you talk about that over the top looking move you have during start down? Is it a personal thing or are you trying to fade the ball or what? Many golfers have this over the top move and slice it but you don't...so you must be doing something right (clubface?)!

 

[Spike]

Have you tried 'freeze framing' your transition: i.e., stop at the top, and intentionally start DOWN with your right elbow and hands and shoulder, WITHOUT any turn whatsoever, simultaneously with shifting your left hip to the left WITHOUT any turn whatsoever. This is a simultaneous single movement in which the shoulders bring the arms down on plane. By doing very very short swings at first you put no strain on your body as you "relearn" or embed what probably is a new thing. You are getting at the very heart of the issue, which is the only place it can be done.

If there is anything in your grip or top position that exerts unwanted pressure OUTward, you need to change that, such as a grip that prevents a relaxed top-of-swing-position, or a too-wound-up-shoulder-turn. A top of swing position is comfortable, not a tense springloaded cannon. See if thinking "up", not "around" at the top helps: could be you are so much out of position that the place you go to forces the overthetop rebound. That's usually where the culprit has gotten in.

Damn good point!

 

[bts]

intention golf

has reared its ugly head once again in my swing. I've tried axis tilt, moving the left shoulder up, moving the right shoulder down, and bumping the hips but still get above the plane on the downswing (Confirmed on Video). In additon to the ones that I have mentioned above, anyone else care to add a few home remedies for correcting the over-the-top move? If so, please post them for all to review and enjoy! Thanks!

By the way, the educated hands thing has never worked for me; I was educated in North Carolina .

You'll certainly come over-the-top, if you're gonna hack that thing "straight" and "far", regardless of whatever supposed-to-do move you use.

In terms of educated hands, no lag, no educated hands, no nothing actually.

 

[puttmad]

....

has reared its ugly head once again in my swing. I've tried axis tilt, moving the left shoulder up, moving the right shoulder down, and bumping the hips but still get above the plane on the downswing (Confirmed on Video). In additon to the ones that I have mentioned above, anyone else care to add a few home remedies for correcting the over-the-top move? If so, please post them for all to review and enjoy! Thanks!

By the way, the educated hands thing has never worked for me; I was educated in North Carolina .

Hi mate,
Here's a simple swing thought for you...
Simply try and hit the ball while your back is still facing the target... mentally try and swing the club down a line that is angled tewnty yards right of your real target...
You may get big hooks at first, but it will adjust.....and it is easier to cure a hook....

 

[Sonic_Doom]

c21heel - I too feel the pain of OTT. Its so deeply embedded in me I dunno if it'll ever go completely.

I think I understand why I first started doing the OTT thingy, but untraining myself after years of bad practice has proved nearly impossible. Just when you think you got it licked...


We need a "Never Over-The-Top Again!" if that's even possible,,,

 

[Perfect Impact]

What you have to do is to change "points" if you catch her catching up.

Use surprise endings!

No, I kinda mean that. My present wife (I practice...) is impatient with me and also anticipates my conclusions, but I DO catch her when she interupts by asking HER what she thinks I am about to say: we do discover a lot about each other as the days go by. But more often than not I KNOW what she WOULD say, and the very reason I am telling her "something she already knows" and doesn't is that the story HAS A DIFFERENT ENDING, A DIFFERENT TWIST.

It's a game of "gotcha!" -- always in jest, of course...unless my irritation shows and I run to cover up.

There's nothing like an attitude showing to destroy communication.

 

[Teris10]

I fought OTT for years. Even when I thought I stopped, I'd check video and there it was. I have recently FINALLY stopped doing it after several lessons and a very concerted effort to stop it.

Here are the things I did. First, check your setip and make sure that you are not standing closed to the target. That was my first problem and I see it every time I go to the range.

Secondly, the first few inches of the downswing are the most important (for me, at least) in preventing the OTT move. The very first move from the top of the swing for me was OTT (in other words, the club head moved toward the way my feet pointed at setup), so I slowed that move down tremendously. I took practice swings where the first move of the clubhead from that position was to drop (down toward the ground AND behind me) an inch or two. Once that club moves down, it's harder to go OTT. This takes a lot of time and patience on the range (and a video camera).

Thirdly, I drove the rear elbow (left elbow for me because I'm a lefty) as far as I could toward my right hip on the downswing which REALLY makes the club drop to start the downswing. [Sidenote: if you're a single plane guy, the is not a move I'd recommend]

Finally, similar to the thought raised above about keeping the back to the target, I swing at the ball as if I want to hit it 45* to left field (again, I'm a lefty). After several months of doing these things - and terrible contact with the ball - it started to click. First, I stopped the OTT. Next, I started to hit the ball more solidly. Now I'm getting a nice little draw. Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Your clubface is either too open or too closed, end of story.

If you are pulling/hooking it's too shut and if it is too open your will be pull-slicing with the occassional pull or pull hook in there due to a flip.

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Also i think Brians "new looking" OTT move is more of a visual illusion thing. He is really taking the club very "in" in the takeaway and has to get "up" very quickly to reach the TSP otherwise he'd end up way too flat.

Due to this happening quickly (in a backswing) he ends up looking like he comes over his initial plane in the takeaway.

to be perfectly honest, this is the problem of most good players. I call it "too much in and not enough up." For someone like brian or myself that KNOWS you have to get the club up faster it's not an issue but most other players don't. So they keep going "in" and never really getting enough "up" and they swing too far to the right and flip at it too.

 

[birdie_man]

I've always had a big OTT move......no slice or pull.

Just a John Daly/Sam Snead STT type takeaway......(but maybe moreso for a few reasons)....

Lots of "in" as Brian says. Then u shift up to the TSP (cause u can't just keep going around).....then OTT in the downswing. Not due to open clubface tho.

Working on it tho (and only cause I think I can hit it better if I fix it) so we'll see. So far so good for sure.

The new pattern I'm working on has more Extensor Action and Traces less inside on the way back.

One thing that stands out is that it feels much less like a SWING.....

Less lagging clubhead takeaway....less rotational....(i.e. not a pure STT basically)....etc.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I've always had a big OTT move......no slice or pull.

Just a John Daly/Sam Snead STT type takeaway......(but maybe moreso for a few reasons)....

Lots of "in" as Brian says. Then u shift up to the TSP (cause u can't just keep going around).....then OTT in the downswing. Not due to open clubface tho.

Working on it tho (and only cause I think I can hit it better if I fix it) so we'll see. So far so good for sure.

The new pattern I'm working on has more Extensor Action and Traces less inside on the way back.

One thing that stands out is that it feels much less like a SWING.....

Less lagging clubhead takeaway....less rotational....(i.e. not a pure STT basically)....etc.

It's really not an OTT move though, it just seems like it because you basically were going up the elbow plane in the backswing and switched to the TSP and then came back down the TSP. I think the book calls it a reverse shift maybe?

 

[kimhhans]

Clubface & OTT

Jim, do You mean that OTT is not a problem as long as the clubface is okay? or that an "correct" clubface will cure the OTT ?

Br,
Kim

Your clubface is either too open or too closed, end of story.

If you are pulling/hooking it's too shut and if it is too open your will be pull-slicing with the occassional pull or pull hook in there due to a flip.

--------------

 

[birdie_man]

It's really not an OTT move though, it just seems like it because you basically were going up the elbow plane in the backswing and switched to the TSP and then came back down the TSP. I think the book calls it a reverse shift maybe?

K ya ur right if it's in regards to the plane line Jim...

It's just that my downswing would come "over" my backswing....OTT?....I dunno.

I think it's a Single Shift.

Reverse I think is like Sergio/Adam Scott.

 

[c21heel]

Folks, thanks for all the great posts. The frustrating thing for me is that I manage to shoot in the mid to high 70s with a hacking POS swing that I have ingrained over the years. Fortunately for me, my athleticism has salvaged many a round. My swing on tape looks a lot like what Jim Kobylinski mentions...way to the inside, then up, then out and over. Despite my best efforts, I can't eliminate it.

I do tend to line up to far to the right, which I'm certain causes me to come over the top to get the club back to the inside. And, I think this causes me to come out of my spine angle as well as my arms swing from out to inside of the target line.

I was hitting some balls today and I started thinking about the role the body plays in the swing. Would it be possible that I'm using to much body motion to close the clubface? In other words, could my shoulders be compensating for my hands? A guess the grand question is...what rotates the clubface, the body or the hands? Thoughts?

 

[birdie_man]

Hey I've got video at home actually. I'll post later.

 

[Perfect Impact]

A too inside takeaway CAUSES an OTT swing for 99% of those using that takeaway.

It produces a tension like loading a steel spring, such that once your transition is allowed to begin, the tremendously compressed over-turn of your backswing has no possible way to avoid throwing your shoulders, arms and clubs WAY WAY out in front of you.

If a bullet leaves the barrel of a 6" piston, it is too late to change the direction of the bullet after the first single inch!

Your spring-loaded backswing turn is the root of your problem. DO NOT SWING AROUND to your backswing top: swing YOUR HANDS TO THE RIGHT AND THE CLUBSHAFT UP. ANY "around" with your arms adds to the tension I am describing.

From down the line, a photographer should see your left hand approach HIM directly face on and not move to his right, your left, more than an inch or two and even then it is long after his left hand is higher than his belt.

 

[c21heel]

Perfect Impact

Could you describe the spring-loaded/tremendously compressed over turn backswing a little further? I'm having some trouble visualizing you what your are saying. Would it be better to take the club straight back and then up over the right shoulder?

It certainly makes sense and I appreciate the help.

 

[bts]

The club itself

...........................

what rotates the clubface, the body or the hands? Thoughts?

The center-of-gravity of the club does.