"The Toss" vs. "The Skip"

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Partly to stop tinkering, and partly because I need focus when I'm not playing very frequently, and partly because my tedency is to get TOO OUTSIDE on my backswing and (relatedly) TOO STEEP on my downswing, I decided recently to just focus on the soft draw pattern completely (i.e. not a modified version, but all the components as they fit together). The big change (and improvement) from my normal pattern is to get me much more inside on the backswing and (with the javelin throw) to shallow me out on the downswing - all good stuff. I also realized this time around (after working with SD 1.0 when it was first released) that I really needed to strengthen my grip just a bit to make the components all fit together. I'm hitting my long clubs incredibly well - straight and longer than usual. But I've been less consistent with mid and short irons.

The problem, I think, is the toss. You see, in my heart I'll always be a flipper, not a TGM drag-the-handle sort of guy. And I feel like the toss is a really good aid for those who with the tendency for too much FATS. But for me, the idea of an "underhand toss" is just too closely related to the idea of moving the hand path in the direction of the ball flight. That is, of tossing the clubhead UPward and down the target path line. In other words, FLIPPING. I have a tendency to toss the clubhead UP, putting me in a position just after impact in which the club is not nearly low and left enough.

It seems to me, that in my head at least, a much better concept is skipping rocks. Once I get into my "javelin throw" position I need to think about adding right hand in such a way as to turn the back of my left hand from facing at the camera to facing away from the camera, and keeping the hands and clubhead moving lower and left. Like skipping rocks.

When I toss a softball (and I was a softball pitcher for many years) the back of my right hand points to the ground, and the palm points skyward - not very golf like. When I skip a rock, my right hand turns over, with the palm toward the ground and the back of my hand facing toward the camera. Much more golf like. I think.

I know Brian has mentioned rock skipping in previous posts and videos. Is there anything I am screwing up by conceptualizing what SD 1.0 calls "the toss" as instead, for me, "the skip."???
 
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Partly to stop tinkering, and partly because I need focus when I'm not playing very frequently, and partly because my tedency is to get TOO OUTSIDE on my backswing and (relatedly) TOO STEEP on my downswing, I decided recently to just focus on the soft draw pattern completely (i.e. not a modified version, but all the components as they fit together). The big change (and improvement) from my normal pattern is to get me much more inside on the backswing and (with the javelin throw) to shallow me out on the downswing - all good stuff. I also realized this time around (after working with SD 1.0 when it was first released) that I really needed to strengthen my grip just a bit to make the components all fit together. I'm hitting my long clubs incredibly well - straight and longer than usual. But I've been less consistent with mid and short irons.

The problem, I think, is the toss. You see, in my heart I'll always be a flipper, not a TGM drag-the-handle sort of guy. And I feel like the toss is a really good aid for those who with the tendency for too much FATS. But for me, the idea of an "underhand toss" is just too closely related to the idea of moving the hand path in the direction of the ball flight. That is, of tossing the clubhead UPward and down the target path line. In other words, FLIPPING. I have a tendency to toss the clubhead UP, putting me in a position just after impact in which the club is not nearly low and left enough.

It seems to me, that in my head at least, a much better concept is skipping rocks. Once I get into my "javelin throw" position I need to think about adding right hand in such a way as to turn the back of my left hand from facing at the camera to facing away from the camera, and keeping the hands and clubhead moving lower and left. Like skipping rocks.

When I toss a softball (and I was a softball pitcher for many years) the back of my right hand points to the ground, and the palm points skyward - not very golf like. When I skip a rock, my right hand turns over, with the palm toward the ground and the back of my hand facing toward the camera. Much more golf like. I think.

I know Brian has mentioned rock skipping in previous posts and videos. Is there anything I am screwing up by conceptualizing what SD 1.0 calls "the toss" as instead, for me, "the skip."???

I too have the same fear of flipping when attempting the toss. When you spend many years trying to get forward lean it's a scary proposition to consider anything but creating more forward lean.
 
Guys, my perception of "the toss" is not one where the palm would ever face skyward ( gathering the marbles). Rather, the toss to me is where the momentum stored in the angles releases into the ball to low point. The "skipping" thought is a toss as well. Whey you skip a stone, your elbow leads your forearm. When the energy is transfered into your forearm, the "toss" is occurring. When you "skip" you eventually turn your palm down. So if it helps you "skip." To me it's the same thing.

I feel like I "toss" but I also cover with the right palm.

Cheers,
 

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
Guys, my perception of "the toss" is not one where the palm would ever face skyward ( gathering the marbles). Rather, the toss to me is where the momentum stored in the angles releases into the ball to low point. The "skipping" thought is a toss as well. Whey you skip a stone, your elbow leads your forearm. When the energy is transfered into your forearm, the "toss" is occurring. When you "skip" you eventually turn your palm down. So if it helps you "skip." To me it's the same thing.

I feel like I "toss" but I also cover with the right palm.

Cheers,

Great post. Toss but also go palm down!
 
The problem with the softball anaology is that it is slow pitch where the ball has an arc, but if you were to toss like fast pitch your wrist would stay bent much longer and you would let the ball go towards the target not the sky. Maybe like bowling... as long as you don't bowl overhand.
 
Thanks, guys. Very helpful responses for me, and makes it clear that it's a good idea for me to have "skip" in my head.

The problem with the softball anaology is that it is slow pitch where the ball has an arc, but if you were to toss like fast pitch your wrist would stay bent much longer and you would let the ball go towards the target not the sky.

I guess it's just all about the meaning of the words for a particular person. For me, a fast pitch isn't a toss; it's a throw. When I think "toss" I think precisely underhand: the difference between "toss me that" and "throw me that" is that toss is a nice, lazy underhanded pitch.

Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the whole idea of the component that Brian has named "the toss," just that for me it's probably more helpful to think of that component under a different name.

I guess my softball pitching days weren't good for my golf!
 
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