This guy likes "X-Factor"

[birdie_man]

...the first "X-Factor"...lol...

....found this somewhere else:

"The combination of the elastic properties of the SEC and the muscle spindle stretch reflex facilitate a more powerful contraction than is possible without a quick "pre-stretch." Here's a very simple demonstration: squat down nice and low, pause for a count of two, and try to jump as high as you can. Now, from standing quickly drop into the squat position and jump as high as you can. Obviously you jumped higher when you dropped quickly into the squat position rather than pausing in the squat position. The same goes for the golf swing. The more stretch you can get in rotational muscles (eg. internal and external obliques) the more power you can produce. How do you get more stretch in these muscles? You increase the distance between the insertions. So in the golf swing you rotate your trunk away from your pelvis (this is a really crude way of describing this but this post will turn into a textbook if I go into more detail and accurately describe things). So the idea that "the greater the turn of the shoulders in relationship to the hips creates tension and upon release of the hips more speed is generated by the upper body playing catch-up to the lower body" is totally correct from a physiological and biomechanical standpoint."

...

I said:

"OK....

I read this...

And it honestly seems to make sense....

But then....

How do you explain Sam Snead (LONG), Bubba Watson (longEST on tour), JB Holmes, John Daly, Mike Austin....etc...

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/swin...08samsnead.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/inde...mberwatson.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/inde...mberholmes.html
http://asafgolf.free.fr/images/golf/swings/daly_96_face.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7...in_Sequence.JPG



I mean....I read and hear a lot about guys not turning their hips.....but I don't see it.....maybe (some of them) keep their right knees 100% bent (because they've been told to).....although not VJ, Bubba, Phil....or Hogan, Snead, Jones, Nelson...anyone before Nicklaus.......

....but anyway....I see a lot of turned hips (turned a good amount)...

 

[birdie_man]

Thoughts?

 

[mrodock]

Some of these guys with big hip turns may have 120 degree shoulder turns and may not disprove the X-factor to the degree we think? I hate the idea of the X factor, but I'd need a lot of data to be convinced it isn't true. At the same time, I'm going to make a bigger hip turn and figure I'll hit the ball further, but that isn't scientific enough for me.

 

[Jimmy A.]

Wouldn't the same tension be created if you allowed the hips to turn some on the back swing, but then started the downswing with the hips (Hogan's swing comes to mind)? At the point that the hips start the downswing before the shoulders begin to move, I would think there is tension created between the hips and the upper body.

 

[Perfect Impact]

If you connect one car to another with a really hard rubber bungee cord, it gets stretched when the tow begins. That isn't elasticity pulling the second car: it is the fact that there is no more stretch left in the cord: it has reached its limit. Hence in a golf swing driven by hips, of course the angle between hips and shoulders will reach its max for that golfer. To imagine that elasticity of joints plays a part is simply wrong information.

 

[mrodock]

Wouldn't the same tension be created if you allowed the hips to turn some on the back swing, but then started the downswing with the hips (Hogan's swing comes to mind)? At the point that the hips start the downswing before the shoulders begin to move, I would think there is tension created between the hips and the upper body.

There has been a study on this calling the idea you speak of the "X-factor stretch." It claims that people that increase the separation between the hips and the shoulders on the downswing hit the ball further. Also, it claims there is a direct relationship between being able to create a lot of "X-factor stretch" and having a high X-factor at the top of the backswing.

Matt

 

[Ricky1990]

Camilo villegas doesent turn his hips bug all and he hits it MILES, he definetly uses the X factor!

 

[birdie_man]

I know that those long hitter I posted don't neccessarily prove anything...

I mean....who knows.....they could hit it longer with less hip turn for all I know.....

And what that guy wrote (about crouching down then jumping straight up) seemed to make sense....

I dunno tho.....

Seemed like a good topic to start.

 

[tonyCA]

How do you explain Sam Snead (LONG), Bubba Watson (longEST on tour), JB Holmes, John Daly, Mike Austin....etc....

The "X-Factor" does matter.....just not until the transition.

 

[Bigwill]

...the first "X-Factor"...lol...

....found this somewhere else:

"The combination of the elastic properties of the SEC and the muscle spindle stretch reflex facilitate a more powerful contraction than is possible without a quick "pre-stretch." Here's a very simple demonstration: squat down nice and low, pause for a count of two, and try to jump as high as you can. Now, from standing quickly drop into the squat position and jump as high as you can. Obviously you jumped higher when you dropped quickly into the squat position rather than pausing in the squat position. The same goes for the golf swing. The more stretch you can get in rotational muscles (eg. internal and external obliques) the more power you can produce. How do you get more stretch in these muscles? You increase the distance between the insertions. So in the golf swing you rotate your trunk away from your pelvis (this is a really crude way of describing this but this post will turn into a textbook if I go into more detail and accurately describe things). So the idea that "the greater the turn of the shoulders in relationship to the hips creates tension and upon release of the hips more speed is generated by the upper body playing catch-up to the lower body" is totally correct from a physiological and biomechanical standpoint."

...

I said:

"OK....

I read this...

And it honestly seems to make sense....

But then....

How do you explain Sam Snead (LONG), Bubba Watson (longEST on tour), JB Holmes, John Daly, Mike Austin....etc...

http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/swin...08samsnead.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/inde...mberwatson.html
http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/inde...mberholmes.html
http://asafgolf.free.fr/images/golf/swings/daly_96_face.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7...in_Sequence.JPG

I mean....I read and hear a lot about guys not turning their hips.....but I don't see it.....maybe (some of them) keep their right knees 100% bent (because they've been told to).....although not VJ, Bubba, Phil....or Hogan, Snead, Jones, Nelson...anyone before Nicklaus.......

....but anyway....I see a lot of turned hips (turned a good amount)...

It's just like the vertical jump example. The guys with the big hip turn are creating the quick stretch in the transition phase, similar to the drop-and-jump analogy. It dosen't necessarily disprove x-factor, per se. But it does point out a possible misconception about when and how you achieve it. As an example, Bubba Watson has a big hip turn going back. But I've seen pictures of him halfway down where his hips are open, and his shoulders are closed. So he had a big x-factor, but it wasn't created by holding his hips still during the backswing, which is the picture of x-factor that most people have in mind.

 

[self-mastery]

off topic--- Daly has to be the most flexible fat man ever!

The X-FACTOR is silly, wasteful and unnatural.

Making a quality transition is the key for power. I remember reading a book that said that the biggest difference between the effortless power of pro golfers and saturday hackers is their transition.

I went from a slicing wimpy driver of the golf ball to a stud with this one key move--- start your DS with your lower body and abs... When I'm pounding the ball in the 290's I end up with sore abs and a sore tush everytime. I think that most ppl would kill the ball if they learned this one thing.

Then when you add some snap-- oh my gosh-- so sexy!!! 300yds +

drive those hips

 

[self-mastery]

Bubba Watson has a big hip turn going back. But I've seen pictures of him halfway down where his hips are open, and his shoulders are closed. So he had a big x-factor, but it wasn't created by holding his hips still during the backswing, which is the picture of x-factor that most people have in mind.

You make a good point. I think that the restrictive hip turn theory is hogwash, but creating the X-factor on th DS with a huge lower body drive is the real key to power. X-factor believers misplace where it should happen in the golf swing.

How does C.O.A.M. relate to this idea????

 

[mrodock]

Then when you add some snap-- oh my gosh-- so sexy!!! 300yds +

drive those hips

This is hilarious! Has a woman ever said "so sexy" after you hit a drive? Lie if it will make a better story of course!

 

[self-mastery]

This is hilarious! Has a woman ever said "so sexy" after you hit a drive? Lie if it will make a better story of course!

No but when I swing my driver I always say "SEXY HIPS" in my pre-swing routine, it's like my clearkey or something... It reminds me to drive my hips because my biggest problem is not getting through the ball.

Playing partners look at me like I'm crazy...

After I cream the ball I always say "so hawt" in paris hilton fashion.

 

[mrodock]

No but when I swing my drive I always say "SEXY HIPS" in my pre-swing routine, it's like my clearkey or something... It reminds me to drive my hips because my biggest problem is not getting through the ball.

Playing partners look at me like I'm crazy...

After I cream the ball I always say "so hawt" in paris hilton fashion.

Wow, that was better than I thought!

 

[mrodock]

You make a good point. I think that the restrictive hip turn theory is hogwash, but creating the X-factor on th DS with a huge lower body drive is the real key to power. X-factor believers misplace where it should happen in the golf swing.

How does C.O.A.M. relate to this idea????

This is very interesting, huge hip turn, big shoulder turn on the backswing, let's say 110-70 and DRIVE those hips, sounds powerful to me.

 

[Perfect Impact]

You make a good point. I think that the restrictive hip turn theory is hogwash, but creating the X-factor on th DS with a huge lower body drive is the real key to power. X-factor believers misplace where it should happen in the golf swing.

How does C.O.A.M. relate to this idea????

By virtue of the center of mass in the hips/midsection as the driver, and the tip of the whip--the clubhead, as the other end of the system. The huge lower body drive is the handle of the whipchain.

 

[Ricky1990]

I have problem of my hips sliding to much in the downswing and then my hands get stuck and then FLIP low hook! This only happens with driver and im young and they say lots of youngsters have very active hips and hands in there swings, how can I quieten my hips down abit?

Thought id ask because I saw you were speaking about lower body drive!

 

[Burner]

Thoughts?

Yup, its all complete BS.

Just wind yourself up, like a spring, and cram on as much X Factor as you can.

Done that?

Now relax and whammo nothing, zilch, zero, nadda. There is no spring like effect that releases this pent up tension and catapults your body back to its original orientation, then beyond to a full follow through.

You got it, you are still stuck in the completed backswing position, waiting for your Brain to fire messages to the muscles that will propel your club through its downswing and beyond range of motion - and they 'aint the ones that you used to build up tension in your backswing.

 

[Perfect Impact]

I'm not so sure that is the way to "fix your problem" - . Why restrain the very heart of your power if something else USING it would obviate the problem. I guess I'd need more information about what you think is "stuck." Could be you simply are too loosey-goosey and when you DO move your lower body you are "disconnected," like a loose bungee cord, so that the other end of your swingchain assembly doesn't get the message that you've started down. TIGHTEN YOUR BODY at the top so that if something moves at your left HIP, AT THE SAME INSTANT IT HAS AN EFFECT on your hands. They should be so firmly connected - tensed is good sometimes - so that like a rope tightened between two cars, the towee moves at the same instant the towING car starts forward.

Make sense? Give it a try.