Do you think players like Fred Couples, John Daly, and even Gary Player have a Cocked Right Wrist at the Top, or just Double Wrist Action of the Left Wrist only? All of those guys do get back to a good Impact condition. I'm not saying that one should necesarily teach one to do this. Just interested in discussion of the mechanism here.
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Three great players all had/have cocked right wrists and cupped left wrists at the top:
ben hogan
sergio garcia
Grace park
What all of them is during the start down sequence they "fix it." They flatten out the left and come into the ball. I "think" this is called "down cocking."
Personally it isn't something to teach, but if you do it and end up with the right alignments at impact i wouldn't worry.
ben hogan
sergio garcia
Grace park
What all of them is during the start down sequence they "fix it." They flatten out the left and come into the ball. I "think" this is called "down cocking."
Personally it isn't something to teach, but if you do it and end up with the right alignments at impact i wouldn't worry.
Burner
New
Jim,
Que?
Here is a Golf Digest link to Sergio swinging
Click on the "upline" sequence and then move the video along frame by frame. I see no cupping of the left wrist
here ,
nor in this other sequence
here .
Nor do I see a cupped wrist in this Hogan shot .
Que?
Here is a Golf Digest link to Sergio swinging
Click on the "upline" sequence and then move the video along frame by frame. I see no cupping of the left wrist
here ,
nor in this other sequence
here .
Nor do I see a cupped wrist in this Hogan shot .
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Gary Player??!!!???
Nope.
You can do ANYTHING YOU WANT on the backstroke.
IF...you fix it on the way to impact.
Nope.
You can do ANYTHING YOU WANT on the backstroke.
IF...you fix it on the way to impact.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Burner....its hard to tell from the hogan pics if his left wrist is cupped. Hogan didn't ALWAYS have the cupp....he changed to it later because he wanted to get rid of the left ball. There was a video over at the GEA site that shows a clear video of him when he did start cupping and if you play it in quicktime and go frame by frame you'll see the cup and the flattening during the start down.
In the link to sergio at redgoat's site....frame 4 isn't at the top of his swing so i don't know.
In the link to sergio at redgoat's site....frame 4 isn't at the top of his swing so i don't know.
birdie_man
New
What's the GEA site???
birdie_man
New
Thankya sir.
Have to check er outski.
Have to check er outski.
Single Wrist Action is probably better for many, or most people. The TGM book does say, however, that with true centrifugal force swings, Double Wrist Action, because of the reverse rotation during release actually "inhibits clubhead throwaway".
My original question had to do with whether players like Daly, Couples, etc., cock the right wrist, or just have Double Wrist Cock of the left wrist only.
My original question had to do with whether players like Daly, Couples, etc., cock the right wrist, or just have Double Wrist Cock of the left wrist only.
PGA tour pros are very gifted athletes. Homer said he learned very little from them.
Golfers from past eras didn’t use video or even coaches- they are dug out of the dirt what they felt they can reproduce time and again. These feel players use lots of compensations in their swing that even they aren’t unaware of. Much of today’s teaching stems out of teaching pro’s teaching their feel with little knowledge of what that feel really is. These compensations by the way created many individual, delightful and beautiful golf strokes. Watch the PGA teaching pro championships- the top teachers from across the nation and see 90 different golf strokes- some strange, yet we learn from them. Which is okay- it’s just an observation.
These gifted Tour athletes can make the compensations. Must of us can’t, nor should we. We can dig a swing out of Homer’s book.
Golfers from past eras didn’t use video or even coaches- they are dug out of the dirt what they felt they can reproduce time and again. These feel players use lots of compensations in their swing that even they aren’t unaware of. Much of today’s teaching stems out of teaching pro’s teaching their feel with little knowledge of what that feel really is. These compensations by the way created many individual, delightful and beautiful golf strokes. Watch the PGA teaching pro championships- the top teachers from across the nation and see 90 different golf strokes- some strange, yet we learn from them. Which is okay- it’s just an observation.
These gifted Tour athletes can make the compensations. Must of us can’t, nor should we. We can dig a swing out of Homer’s book.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
??????????????????????????????????
The "PGA TEACHING Pro Championships????
The "PGA TEACHING Pro Championships????
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Wayne is supposed to be very good, but I haven't seen him.
This is what the silly Teaching Summit should be...seeing the new guys, like Utley...
...and that Itallian Ya't...
This is what the silly Teaching Summit should be...seeing the new guys, like Utley...
...and that Itallian Ya't...
Homer Kelley began his Golf Stroke research in 1941 and published the first edition of The Golfing Machine in 1969. Throughout most of the initial 28 research years, he had two desktop companions, both published in 1946: Ben Hogan's Power Golf and Sam Snead's How To Play Golf. He especially liked Hogan's book -- "I just about wore that one out" -- because "the photos were big and you could see what was going on." He thought Hogan was "the best mechanic" and Snead was "the most natural -- 'I do it my way' -- golfer."
You are correct that he paid little attention to the text. He could readily see that the photographs often conflicted with their written descriptions.
Prior posts stating that Homer used a Byron Nelson book are incorrect.
28 years of research and he still couldn't get his science right ... what could he have been thinking ??
You would have thought that in all those years he could have checked out his science with a legitimate and knowledgeable graduate engineer or even a college Professor in Statics and Dynamics to be 100% certain.
How could Homer have gone so wrong, and now left us to ponder the impact of his scientific gaffes on his golfswing theories ?!
You would have thought that in all those years he could have checked out his science with a legitimate and knowledgeable graduate engineer or even a college Professor in Statics and Dynamics to be 100% certain.
How could Homer have gone so wrong, and now left us to ponder the impact of his scientific gaffes on his golfswing theories ?!
The information I received about the books Mr. Kelley used was from a G.S.E.D. that studied with Mr. Kelley. He even had a copy of the Byron Nelson book that showed a very clear picture of the flat left wrist at impact. I suppose he could have been mistaken about the book. In any case, it is known that Mr. Kelley did study the PICTURES, and had little concern for what was written in these books.
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